Robert Fisk: 'The army was told not to fire at protesters'

Our writer presses Assad's key adviser on the violent battle for Syria's future

Share
+More
Related Topics

Bouthaina Shaaban is one of only six Syrians on America's personal sanction list against the Assad regime. She is political adviser to the President. A middle-aged mother and author who speaks perfect English, as much at home in Paris as in Cairo. And all those assets of hers, frozen in America. Wow.

So I sit in her Damascus office and ask the obvious question: what does it feel like to be on the sanctions list of the most powerful nation on earth? "Nothing really," she says, quick as a flash. "I have no assets – except the assets of the love for my people. The Americans understand 'assets' only as dollars. I don't have dollars anywhere in the world."

The "assets of my people" is a bit of a cliche. But touché. She isn't on a European sanctions list – yet – and thinks she can go to Europe if she wishes. "It's a bit ironic, really, to be on an American sanction list when my books are on sale all over the USA. At present my only travel plan is a possible trip to Saudi Arabia."

It's one of those frequent Syrian interviews – Shaaban prefers an off-the-record chat. I insist we are on the record. Once in full-flow, however, I can't stop her, and she confirms what every other Syrian in Damascus says: that the security situation in Homs is terrible, that the army is being attacked all over the country. Anyone with a military registration plate on their car is a target. Shaaban herself is from Homs. "Today is the second anniversary of the death of my mother. And you know we like to go to the grave of our family on the anniversary of their death. But I can't go to my mother's grave – I am afraid of being killed in Homs. Everyone is suffering.

"The other day, I went to the woman who is the best baker in Damascus – she works on the road to the airport, I always buy my bread from her but she was crying. She told me that some bearded men came to her and said: 'You are a Christian and you are putting whiskey in your bread.' So she had to close her bakery. These are the kind of people who want to destroy Syria. Now people, for the first time, are interested in the religion of their neighbours. This has never happened before. You know, Syria is one of those countries where people have the names of jobs – like Najr (carpenter) and Haddad (blacksmith). Now people are asking about what their religion is."

The political narrative is, of course, familiar. Violence is being directed at the army. "It is being directed at our public buildings and cities. This has nothing to do with peaceful demonstrations. This violence is the most dangerous thing happening now in Syria. Syrians all want to live in peace, to press ahead with pluralism and reforms. This violence is not the introduction to democracy. There is obviously a sector which is interested in conflict and not in reforms. They are all given money to shoot at demonstrators and the security forces – or they are extremist fundamentalists."

I have been down this path before. Surely – surely – I said to Shaaban, those original, terrible YouTube pictures of demonstrators being fired at in Deraa and Homs and Hama were real. One even shows Syrian soldiers turning and firing on the man filming them with his mobile camera. We all know how brutal the intelligence services can be. I remember – but do not mention – walking past the "muhabarrat" headquarters not far from my own hotel and commenting to a friend the same night that they must be hard at work on "interrogations". "They are done in the basements," he replied. "You wouldn't want to know what happens there."

"I think you have to know both sides of the story," comes the reply. "I would not be able to tell you the other side of the story. There are always now two sides of the story – I will not be defending anybody. Early in the crisis, our army and police and security services paid terrible sacrifices but they were told not to shoot at demonstrators. I really don't know why people should make things up. The Syrian civilians who went to Turkey – they returned and said the Turks had promised them passports, all kinds of things which turned out to be untrue. Why would a person wanting to flee Idlib go to Turkey? They would go to Aleppo."

I tell Shaaban that I have spent hours talking to Syrian refugees in Lebanon, poor farming people who told terrible stories of the "shabiha" militia and the brutality of the intelligence services in their village of Tel Khalak. Surely she doesn't believe these people were all making these things up? She talks about the "armed groups "playing with these people" and about how weapons are coming across the borders. "In Deraa, we found weapons that were Israeli. I told our people they should show these weapons to the media..."

So how come Syria's former best friends – Turkey and Qatar – are now among its fiercest critics, I ask? "I find the stand of Turkey a mystery. When you have a good friend – and it was Syria which opened for the Turks the front gate of the Arabs, we allowed Turks to come here without visas, Syria was flooded with Turkish products – we do not expect to have to abide by other people's policies. I think there are bigger, larger reasons. There is to be an anti-missile shield in Turkey, Turkey is a member of Nato – I don't know what is in the cake for Turkey. When I heard yesterday some statements by a Turkish official about us, I felt like he was supposed to be the teacher and we the students. We did not do anything to provoke this stand from Turkey."

There is puzzlement over Qatar's fierce condemnation of Syria but apparent relief that Wednesday's Arab League meeting with the Syrians went well. "I thought they came with a positive attitude. They said that Syria was a very important country in the Arab world, that anything that happens to Syria will affect all of the Arabs. Of course, a lot of their questions were based on the reports of Al Jazeera and Arabia [TV channels]."

I bet they were. Al Jazeera is banned in Syria.

React Now

Day In a Page

Read Next
Sibling rivalry: The public enemy (left) confronts his brother  

The new version of Ibsen's Public Enemy is a drama where democracy doesn't win any votes

Tom Sutcliffe
 

As Hay-on-Wye opens this week, it's time for book festivals to open a new and exciting chapter

David Lister

Johnny Marr talks relationships and reunions

He's worked with Modest Mouse, the Pet Shop Boys and Beck, to name a few, and recently released his first solo album. So why, wonders Johnny Marr, do people still hark on about The Smiths?
After the flood: From Haiti to Britain, one man has captured the devastation of our increasingly deluged lands

In pictures: After the flood

From Haiti to Britain, one man has captured the devastation of our increasingly deluged lands
Death becomes her: Meet the very modern mortician who champions 'cool' funerals

Death becomes her: A very modern mortician

Ever considered baking a loved one's remains into a cake or putting their ashes in fireworks? If so, talk to Caitlin Doughty, champion of the alternative death industry.
How long can the 'Keep Calm' trend carry on?

How long can the 'Keep Calm' trend carry on?

At first it seemed clever and cute. Then the 'Keep Calm' motif went mad, spawning endless offshoots.
The man who built Brum: A lament for the demise of John Madin's Brutalist Birmingham

John Madin: The man who built Brum

The architect's buildings were supposed to leave an indelible, futuristic mark on his beloved hometown but they are now being inexorably torn down.
School of chop: Learning the art of butchery at the Ginger Pig

School of chop: Learning the art of butchery

How do you butcher a lamb? Or make Mexican street food in a British kitchen? Christopher Hirst finds out.
James Pembroke: The man who's eaten everywhere

The man who's eaten everywhere

Few people know more about restaurants than James Pembroke, who only spent five mealtimes at home during his entire childhood.
A Berliner in 1963 – but did John F Kennedy once admire Adolf Hitler?

A Berliner in 1963 – but did John F Kennedy once admire Adolf Hitler?

The young JFK praised 'superior' Nordic races during visits to Germany
Banned Iranian director Mohammad Rasoulof to attend Cannes Film Festival 2013, his first public appearance since prison

Banned Iranian director to attend Cannes Film Festival

Mohammad Rasoulof to make his first public appearance since being imprisoned three years ago
Seeing the larger picture: Inspiring images of space

Seeing the larger picture: Inspiring images of space

An exhibition explores images how photography has shaped astronomy
Eat Spam and carry on: Wartime pamphlets could teach us a thing or two about healthy, thrifty eating

Eat Spam and carry on

Wartime pamphlets could teach us a thing or two about healthy, thrifty eating
Facial hair: Cat beards and the purrrsuit of excellence

Facial hair

Cat beards and the purrrsuit of excellence
The 10 Best salt and pepper sets

The 10 Best salt and pepper sets

Whether they're for everyday use or to make your dining table look just right, it's worth getting a stylish shaker...
Ferran Soriano: Predicting success if Manchester City 'vision' is followed

Ferran Soriano: Predicting success if Manchester City 'vision' is followed

Chief executive says trophies will come if a 'core' of suitable players is in place
Thomas Müller: We couldn't handle losing a Champions League Final again

Thomas Müller: We couldn't handle losing a Champions League Final again

The Bayern Munich forward tells Tim Rich his side have to shed chokers' tag after two recent final defeats