Climate Change

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Countdown to Copenhagen: 35 days to go<br/>

Part 2: Finance

Money is the key to the success of Copenhagen

Developing countries want up to £245bn to reduce their carbon emissions while the EU thinks it should cost them as little as £20bn. Michael McCarthy reports on the huge gap

Developing countries fear the cost of dealing with climate change will come out of aid budgets

EPA

Developing countries fear the cost of dealing with climate change will come out of aid budgets

You think it's about greenhouse gases. You think it's about carbon emissions. And it is. But the Copenhagen agreement on climate change that the world community will attempt to sign in December is just as much about money – enormous, mind-boggling amounts of money.

In brutally simplistic terms, the essence of any deal will be to pay the developing countries of the world, led by China and India, to cut back on the carbon dioxide pouring out of their now-mushrooming economies, which will come to represent 90 per cent of all future emissions growth, and the inducement for them to do this will have to be substantial.

It has hardly dawned on the general public just how big are the sums of cash that the developing world is seeking, and that the rich world will have to go some way towards providing, if the vital pathway to keeping global temperature rises below C is to be mapped out.

But they are truly colossal, and the gap between the potential donor countries and the recipients may be unbridgeable; it is finance, rather than the setting of emissions targets, which is more likely to be the deal-breaker in Copenhagen.

Ever since the first UN global warming treaty was signed in 1992, the rich nations have accepted that they have a special responsibility over climate, as we caused the problem in the first place – most of the CO2 that has gone into atmosphere has been put there by 200 years of western industrialisation.

Now we are asking China and its colleagues in the G77 group of poorer nations to grow – and so bring their people out of poverty – in a different low-carbon way from the way in which we grew, which is difficult and expensive; do as we say, not do as we did. And it is accepted on all sides that if they are to do this, we must help them.

They need help for two essential tasks, which in the jargon are mitigation and adaptation. Mitigation means cutting back on carbon emissions, by substituting renewable energy projects, say, for coal-burning power stations; adaptation means coping with climate change which is now unavoidable, such as building enhanced flood relief schemes to deal with the threat of climate-change-induced sea-level rise. It is obvious that all of this will be costly.

Just how costly the developing world thought it would be became clear at the end of August, when the G77-plus-China, as the nations are collectively known, put forward a formal proposal for financing a new climate agreement. Their "enhanced financial mechanism" suggested that the rich countries should pay between 0.5 and 1 per cent of their gross national product every year. For the European Union, this would be between $90bn (£55bn) and $180bn annually; for the US, between $70bn and $140bn; for Britain alone, between $13bn and $26bn. The full total would be between $200bn and $400bn, a range from nearly double to nearly four times the amount of all current overseas aid flows. Moreover, it would have to be on top of existing aid, the developing countries said – it must be "new and additional", above all current overseas development assistance.

There have been no negotiations about this, because that figure has lain on the table for two months without any of the rich countries responding. But on Friday, at last, the European Union became the first rich-country bloc to come up with its own financial proposals. The EU thinks that the full amount of extra public money needed to pay for climate change in the developed world is €22bn to €50bn annually, depending on what actions the poorer countries undertake (the sum is nearly the same in pounds sterling; in dollars it is about $32bn to $72bn). Europe would probably end up paying about 20 to 30 per cent of this, perhaps €5bn to €12bn, of which Britain itself would probably pay about €1bn. The full regime would be in place by 2020, with lesser sums coming earlier.

The key point about these figures is that they are a start; they allow officials from the 192 countries involved in the treaty, including Britain, at last to start talking about money from today, when the final week of pre-Copenhagen negotiations begins in Barcelona. Oxfam recognised this at the weekend, even while protesting that the level was too low – the charity thinks that more than double the public finance is required. "Finally coming forward with numbers is a positive step but the proposed figure falls well short of the €110bn needed to help poor countries adapt to climate change and curb their carbon emissions," said Robert Bailey, Oxfam's Senior Policy Advisor on climate change.

And, indeed, getting the 27 EU members states to agree at all – some, such as Poland, being very reluctant – was a considerable achievement, for which much of the credit must go to Gordon Brown, who has been pushing hard for an EU deal for months. The EU sums will be the ballpark figures to which other rich nations, the US above all, must now react.

But will they be enough to secure a deal? The quickest glance will show that the EU's top sum is only a third of the developing countries' lowest figure. Is that gap bridgeable in negotiations? Perhaps.

It is not the only problem looming. A condition of the EU offer is "universality" – meaning that some of the richer developing countries, such as China and India, will have to contribute to the fund themselves, even if they end up net beneficiaries of it. They will not like that. But most of all, there is no cast-iron guarantee that the finance will be entirely "new and additional" on top of current aid flows, and the poorer countries fear their development aid may be cut to provide their climate funding.

Next week: The shape of the treaty

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taxed again
[info]panic2009 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:02 am (UTC)
this whole charade is about taxing us into 3rd world existence. why are the public so stupid? world government run by a handful of the wealthy elite , is on its way. we the sheeple have no chance. we are signing away the rights of our children and grandchildren, and consigning their futures to piles of debt and subservience.

as a once proud nation, we should be ashamed.
[info]pacificgatepost wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:13 am (UTC)
That low figure is intended to SEDUCE AMERICA into SIGNING. .... DON'T DO IT.

A NEW WORLD POWER IS COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD:

Jealousies have found fertile soil in the UN for the launch of a retaliation against America.

From Norway to Gambia, dubious motives will use fear of climate change, and Copenhagen in an attempt to create a new world power.

http://pacificgatepost.com/2009/10/un-new-world-power-through-climate.html

You can’t afford it.
Good health and living standards = increased CO2 emissions
[info]oakwood2 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
The developing world has a significantly lower life expectancy and standard of living than the developed. They want to, and need to, attain our level of health and living standards.

However, it is impossible for them to do this without using much more energy, most of which will be fossil fuels - at least for the time being.

Hunger, disease and poverty are a 100% reality in the developing world. The concept of man-made global warming caused by CO2 emisssions remains an uncertain theory. Many 'man-made global warming' beleivers argue that its 'the poor countries' who will suffer first from climate change (and some saying its happening now). But this is just a ploy to pull on our heart strings.

To worry about man-made global warming simply means our lives are so comfortable, we have little else to worry about. It is a luxury of the developed world to be able to do so. In the meantime, many of us propose to impose measures that will deny the developing world of that luxury.

With the man-made global warming scare, we have really reached a distorted concept of morality.

Get real. If we are to pass billions of Euros/Dollars to the developed world, the priority must be solving the 100% real problems of today. (drinking water, food, disease, malaria, Aids, etc, etc), not theoretical problems.
THE QUESTION YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF
[info]sidsnot wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:09 am (UTC)
If you are lucky enough to have a job the question you have to ask yourself is "How many people can I support on my salary?" After your family comes a whole host of people with their hands out. Politicians, people on Welfare, the Royal Family, the Police, the Army, Local Government, European Parliament, Banks, Environment, etc. etc. The list goes on and on. How long will it be before the "stupid" taxpaying voter realises that he/she is the only person holding the whole stinking charade up and then refuses to dance to the piper anymore. This year 151 days of your pay will go to the Government. Think about it!
Smell the money at Copenhagen
[info]muckle10 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC)
Here we have a perfect storm of climate alarmism, western guilt, pots of money, wacky economics and simple greed.

Just ask yourselves how much of this money will end up in the pockets of corrupt policticians, dodgy businessmen and unsustainable renewable energy schemes in third world countries.

UK taxpayers will end paying large sums of money to fuel worldwide corruption.
Make them pay
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC)
Given that it is the developing countries who suffer most from climate change they should be paying us to produce less CO2.
Your Joking Right
[info]tuerke9 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:33 pm (UTC)
If anyone going to Copenhagen thinks any US politician is going to sign anything that sends any significant amount of money to the Developing World in the name of Climate Change they are delusional. US politicians have only one concern in their lives and that is the next election and in the middle of this recession US voters will eliminate any politician that gives away money we don't have to
countries that have a history of stealing or wasting most foreign aid they already receive. This is obvious to most of us in the US and to the vast majority Copenhagen is just a charade and another
monument to UN nonsense.
Say NO to the One World Government!
[info]roberto2002 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:43 pm (UTC)
The whole intent of the "climate change scare" is to pave the way to effect socialist redistribution on the global scale. Why should we be surprised? Developed countries are not a numerical majority. It is only natural that developing countries want to seize the wealth of rich countries to pay for their own socioeconomic and cultural failings that stop them from producing wealth. Normally, we would call this behaviour THEFT. Climate change is just the latest vehicle to tug at the heartstrings of the ignorant in the developed world to part with our private property.

We should get out of the United Nations now. This entity has become a cruel joke. If it had its way, it would suppress our freedom of speech at the behest of Islamic countries (yes they have a larger combined population than we have). The so-called "Human Rights" Council is headed by such luminaries as Saudi Arabia, China, Cuba, Libya and Pakistan. The United Nations is a forum that third-world despots use to bash the west, despite us paying the lion share of its upkeep. The sheeple need to wake up and reclaim our nation sovereignty from the menacing cancer of the UN.
Climate change
[info]tedthedog wrote:
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC)
One or two simple questions.
First - It is impossible to cut CO2 emissions by the ludicrous amount suggested by the UK government...(always ready to "lead the world...")...as part of the grandstanding ahead of the Copenhagen conference.... and all the others. We are nowhere near replacing current fuels with "sustainables". So, are you willing to cut your heating by 30%? cut your travel by 30%? ...and suffer hugely inflated food bills? And this on top of the politically motivated fuel price rises already in the pipeline. And then pay greatly increased taxes to subsidise countries to the extent that, along with the above, we decimate our economy? Third world status beckons unless we realise that the illusion of "leading the world" cannot translate into the fact of subsidising the world's failing states.

Which brings us to the second question. If, just supposing, IF we did find all this extra funding to send to the poorer states - who do you think will get the money ? No need even to ask. The queue starts with the World Bank, who will be the first to cream off a substantial share. Then the local politicians, closely followed by their bureaucracies, then the international companies....and then crikey, bonzooks, there's none left for the indigenous population to "combat climate change ".

If you don't buy this, then think of the various disaster funds - how much was actually, swiftly and effectively distributed to those in need? And in these cases, the issues were fairly one dimensional.

It is well above time that our country grasped the nettle on climate change. It is not due to CO2. Repeat after me - it is not due to CO2. In fact, there is little hard evidence that there is any climate change at all beyond the slow general natural changes which have occurred since time began. If there is, then there is nothing that we can do about it.
Re: Climate change
[info]simonlp wrote:
Thursday, 12 November 2009 at 05:36 am (UTC)
Actually.. it is very easy for nations such as Britain to reduce their emissions at almost no cost to the economy. Energy Efficiency measures could reduce emissions by upto 40% by 2020 alone!! That simply means having much stricter standards for new appliances and new buildings and for the government to provide funding for retrofitting existing buildings and subsidizing cleaner greener products, funded by taxing the polluting products. With the correct policies in place, energy costs will DROP and everyone will actually SAVE money! The extra money that is saved will compensate for the increased costs for polluting industries.
£100 billion per anum
[info]redroseandy wrote:
Wednesday, 4 November 2009 at 05:14 am (UTC)
Whatever the price of global warming the money can be found without damaging the economy. Mental illness costs the UK £100 billion a year, and most of it is caused by little or poor sleep, remedied by heating salt water in an oil burner overnight for a few nights. A faster DIY cure is the British Space Administration Drinking Game. And for those that do not want to be cured there is the Kadir-Buxton Method which cures in thirty seconds and can be done by practice nurses.
Gandhi not Friedman
[info]thorntongate wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
No, money is not the key to success.

The key to success is a change of ideology, away from rampant individualism towards a realisation that we are ALL in the same boat. And the boat's name is Planet Earth.

Gandhi summed it up:

"There's enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed"

Once we get that into our thick noddles, everything else will be possible.

But not before.


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