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Wind farm may be torn down to make way for nuclear site

A Cumbrian village has found itself at the centre of the debate over Britain's future energy policy

By Geoffrey Lean and Ian Griggs

Baywind Energy, which operates the wind farm, appears to be resigned to its fate

getty images

Baywind Energy, which operates the wind farm, appears to be resigned to its fate

To passionate advocates of the atom and renewable energy alike, this says it all. One of Britain's pioneering wind farms is threatened with demolition to make way for one of the Government's planned new generation of nuclear power stations.

The tall turbines of Haverigg wind farm, only the second commercial one to be built in Britain, have been turning for 17 years between the hills of the Lake District and the waters of the Duddon estuary on the Cumbrian coast. But they also happen to be right on one of 11 potential sites for new nuclear reactors announced by ministers 10 days ago.

And here, not far from Sellafield – on what the Cumbria County Council likes to call "Britain's Energy Coast" – the atom is due to take precedence over the zephyr.

Six of Haverigg's eight turbines actually fall within the proposed footprint of the Kirksanton nuclear power station, where RWE wants to build up to three reactors. The German energy giant confirms that they would have to be dismantled if the power station were built.

The development will delight pro-nuclear anti-wind activists while dismayed environmentalists will see it as an all-too-obvious portent of a switch in government priorities from promoting wind to advancing the atom – and as proof that concentrating on nuclear will cripple renewable energy. "It beggars belief that, at a time when windpower has never been more vital to the UK, a viable wind farm is to be sacrificed on the altar of nuclear power," said Martin Forwood of the campaign group Cumbrians Opposed to a Radioactive Environment.

But RWE countered: "The wind farm currently produces 3.5 megawatts of energy while a nuclear power station would produce 3,600 megawatts, enough to power five million homes. So, from a climate change point of view, if the wind farm had to go it would not be such a bad thing."

Villagers, concerned about the prospect of the power station – one of only two in the country planned for greenfield sites, rather than being built next to existing reactors – appear on balance to favour the wind farm.

People in the tiny village of Kirksanton, just 150 yards from the power station's boundary, have formed a local action group that claims to represent the views of the majority of residents.

"[A nuclear power station] is completely unsuitable due to its proximity to the village and we totally oppose it," Michael Wills, the group's spokes-man, said last night. "We are concerned about the health risks and it will destroy a blossoming tourist industry."

Tim Kendall, representing another action group in nearby Whicham, added: "The wind farm has been here a long time. It's not aesthetically pleasing but we're happy to live with renewable energy.

"The nuclear power station will completely wipe it out because it will be difficult to make it work with large buildings surrounding it. Any development on that kind of scale would be totally inappropriate. It would dominate the surrounding landscape."

Baywind Energy, which operates the wind farm, appears to be resigned to its fate. "We don't want the turbines taken down but we're not sure there is an option to refuse," a spokesman said.

The county council said that it saw the West Cumbrian coast as a future hub of the emerging low-carbon economy but was awaiting the results of consultations with residents before deciding whether to back the Kirksanton plan.

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Irish Sea
[info]kjkjgkgukg wrote:
Saturday, 25 April 2009 at 11:23 pm (UTC)
Due to the nuclear powerplant at Sellafield the irish sea is the most radioactive sea in the world. Do we want mre of this?
Irish Sea
[info]michael_syorks wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 05:57 am (UTC)
kjkjgkgukg

Where is the evidence for this silly claim?



Re: Irish Sea
[info]nightside242 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 03:42 pm (UTC)
There's a wealth of evidence out there, I completed my dissertation in this area last year. It's not hard to use Google or Wikipedia, you know.
UK pop too densly packed to have a Chenoybl failure
[info]corporeal4now wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 08:54 am (UTC)

A serious nuclear plant failure will be disasterous for the UK.
No one can give you a guarantee that it wont happen.

Being an island, with coast, good winds and lots of water, UK need to put more money / planning permission to wind, wave, hydro (Scotland) and tidal power and thereby minimise the number of nuclear/coal power stations.
Re: UK pop too densly packed to have a Chenoybl failure
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:11 pm (UTC)
You clearly don't understand either nuclear physics or reactor design.

We could never have a 'Chernobyl-like' incident, because we don't build reactors to the same appalling slapdash and unsafe design as the Chernobyl model (which didn't even have an outer housing to contain a reactor failure, and had a positive temperature coefficient, which mean that as it got hotter its rate of reaction escalated out of control). Only the Russians were sufficiently stupid and cheap-skate to attempt that design, and they learned their lesson the hard way. The modern reactor designs of the UK, France and the US are actually incredibly safe (for a start, our reactors have a negative temperature coefficient, which means that if they get too hot their rate of reaction decreases, so they can never run out of control).

So please, no counter-productive scaremongering from a position of scientific ignorance and (I suspect) green party dogma - get your facts right.


Re: UK pop too densly packed to have a Chenoybl failure
[info]corporeal4now wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:34 pm (UTC)

When mankind has created a non-moving part like a spark-plug that wont fail, you can come back and argue your case. Until then, accept that everything can fail, moving, static, fluid, solid, vapour or whatever. I repeat again everything.
Re: UK pop too densly packed to have a Chenoybl failure
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:54 pm (UTC)
Of course a reactor can fail. The critical question is whether it can always fail SAFELY, rather than catastrophically. And for modern reactors designs, the answer is YES. Modern reactors have to have thousands of fail-safe features build into them, and to cope with every conceivable failure scenario, no matter how astronomically unlikely - from complex systems failures to terrorist attacks.

For this reason, a modern nuclear reactor is SAFER THAN A PASSENGER AIRLINER, in terms of the number and rigour of safety requirements it must meet! And in the extremely unlikely event that it failed, the consequences would be far less serious than would be the case for a typical airliner.

Once again, I repeat - your scaremongering about nuclear reactors is based on IGNORANCE, and as such is both stupid and irresponsible. Please STOP IT.
Nuke is better then wind and rain.
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
Nuke is better then wind and rain.
Someone ought to tell the politicians. We may just save some farms.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
Waste of breath.
[info]rojaws wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
It's a complete waste of time debating which form of power generation is going to be best for the country.
Anyone with any sense knows that, long term, wind power, hydro-electric etc is the right option just as anyone with any sense knows that the nuclear plants will be built because the appropriate palms have been greased.
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:16 pm (UTC)
"Anyone with any sense knows that, long term, wind power, hydro-electric etc is the right option"

Bullshit. Do the maths. 'Renewable' energy CANNOT supply 100% of our current energy needs, let alone our future needs.

"nuclear plants will be built because the appropriate palms have been greased."

Can you offer proof of this, or is it just the usual Green Party conspiracy theorizing, based on pathological cynicism and fictitious boogey-men?

Re: Waste of breath.
[info]skyemartyn wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:49 pm (UTC)
Maybe you think spending a few tens of billions of pounds on an energy source that produces a toxic waste product that even 60 years of nuclear research have failed to overcome is a good idea. Maybe you think it's ok to rely on imported finite fuels. Maybe you think it's OK to waste 60% of your energy generation? Maybe you think it's ok to burden future generations with toxic legacies just so you don't have to think about saving energy or solving tough problems.

As for the money, just check the subsidy for 50 years of nuclear power here in the UK. How much has THORP cost the tyax payer so far? Just check the liabilities for new nuclear power stations under current plans. Check France out, you'll notice power generation over there is still state controlled and heavily subsidised. And we haven't ebven begun to talk about build costs, decommissioning costs and waste storage costs - for upto 100,000 years - longer than humanity has existed!

Nuclear in uneconomic unless the tax payer is forced to underwrite the industry and take on the liabilities, and provide a fixed rate for every kWh generated. And one thing is for sure, putting all your eggs in one basket is a very bad idea, and that's exactly what going nuclear is going to do. Oh, and that tiny matter of waste. Burying it in the ground - very scientific and sensible - just like landfill.
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 01:14 pm (UTC)
There's really no point in trying to argue with people like you, skypemartin. You vomit up the same spurious statistics and Green Party-style alarmist anti-nuclear bollocks every time, and close your eyes and ears to anyone who tries to counter your arguments with factual evidence and calm common sense.

Being anti-nuclear is virtually a RELIGION for people like you, and founding dogmas of your beliefs are just as irrational and uncontaminated by truth and logic.

It's a waste of time arguing with dogmatic zealots, so I'm not going to bother.
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]skyemartyn wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 08:24 pm (UTC)
Why don't you argue against my points instead of getting all defensive?
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Tuesday, 28 April 2009 at 09:26 am (UTC)
You don't seem to have done the maths yourself! Renewables can easily supply the world's energy needs many times over for billions of years. What's your problem? Are you addicted to solutions that are detrimental to society? Are you incapable of feeling happy without one big ticking bomb threatening society in a number of different ways? Is it perhaps that you are emotionally completely degenerated and refuse to accept that something so foolishly low-tech as solar plants alone would suffice. Poor man...
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:17 pm (UTC)
Do you even know how many wind power or hydro-electric power stations need to be built just to generate the power of 1 nuclear power plant?
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]skyemartyn wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 08:51 pm (UTC)
Well, 342 if you're using 3.5MW windmills. Yes windmills don't run all the time, but neither do nuclear power stations. Finding 1.2GW in an instant is not an easy thing to do. That's what happened when Sizewell tripped a few months ago leading to brownouts. All generation needs some backup.

There is currently about 3GW of untapped Hydro capacity left in Scotland, that's two large nuclear power stations. But, there are waves, there are tides, there is the sun, there is biomass, there is CHP based on gas or biomass, there is clean coal, there is storage technology. Of course, there is efficiency, stop wasting energy.

The point is, renewables offer a mix of generation, truly diverse. We have massive potential all around us, it just needs investment to harness. And I for one do not believe for 1 second that harnessing the waves or tides is any more difficult than harnessing the power of fission. The only difference is harnessing fission allowed the creation of weapons of mass destruction. That is why we have civillian nuclear power, and it is the only reason why. The money we're about to chuck away into the nuclear black hole could easily be spent on solving technical issues that allow us to harness renewable energy. And that is the only way to achive energy security for this island. It also offers massive economic benefits to us as a country and could create thousands of skilled jobs. Morover, it creates non of the legacy nuclear creates.
Re: Waste of breath.
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Tuesday, 28 April 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC)
Yes, but what you don't realize is the huge infrastructure that is hidden BEHIND the nuclear plant. You have the mines with all the industry necessary to produce equipment, explosives, chemicals etc. You need to extract the uranium, you need to enrich the uranium, you need to store the waste, and you need extensive safety measures all along the route.

If you look at it that way, windmills aren't that bad after all...
Irish sea
[info]user800 wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 12:32 pm (UTC)
The Irish sea is not the most radioactive in the world, by a very long way.

The average for seas and oceans around the world is 13.6 Becquerel per KG. The Irish Sea is at 13.7, the eastern Mediterranean 14.6, the Persian Gulf 22 and the Dead Sea an astonishing 178.

The amount of radiation released by Sellafield is dwarfed by the natural radioactivity in the sea.
Re: Irish sea
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 11:26 pm (UTC)
Yes, but we can measure the technetium all the way up in Norway and why do we find fish with eyes that light up green in our fishing-nets....????
'Going Nuclear'
[info]thorntongate wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 12:45 pm (UTC)
You're right rojaws, and the proof is here:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e94b0702-949a-11dc-9aaf-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=f0d249de-e821-11db-b2c3-000b5df10621.html

It's also worth a visit to this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium#Supply

We might get something 'better' that wind farms; our children's children might just be glad of them!
Re: 'Going Nuclear'
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 11:32 pm (UTC)
Yes, better, you are probably right. They will just love all those huge, concrete constructions that need to cool off for decades, they will admire our foresight at the need to deposit tonnes of radioactive waste in underground storage rooms that will need constant monitoring for thousands of years, they will gaze in pure delight at all the huge holes where we took out the uranium ore, and most of all, they will cheer when thanks to the limitless proliferation a few cities in the West are wiped off the map. Yes, it will be much, much better...

The fact that solar energy could have supplied many times over the necessary amount of energy the entire world needs for billions of years will be soon forgotten...

Thank you so very much for being a complete and utter mindless and degenerated moron!
Re: 'Going Nuclear'
[info]leohw wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 11:31 am (UTC)
They're counting on us having very short memories!

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/nuclear-waste-containers-likely-to-fail-warns-devastating-report-907200.html

So what are the alternatives?

"Clean" coal? Un-proven. Like most new technologies it'll probably take double the time and double the money to get right. At least we have domestic reserves, for now. Not a long term solution at all.

Nuclear fusion? So some say it'll be commercially available by the end of the 2020's? They haven't even got the physics sorted out yet, let alone the engineering!!!

Renewable - it can be done if the political will is there. At least a wind farm can be completely removed leaving the land exactly as it was beforehand. We could easily hit 30-40% peak demand with wind alone until such time as fusion comes on-line. Then there's tidal barrage/lagoon, and tidal stream supplying another 20%. Problem sorted. It really doesn't have to be that difficult!

Our government's abdication of responsibilty for the environment will leave the land scattered with radioactive hotspots for tens of thousands of years. Bloody disgusting.
Nuclear power
[info]goosegreece wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 03:06 pm (UTC)
Why is it always the north of England? Why not near to London.....NeedI ask?
Re: Nuclear power
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:29 pm (UTC)
Reactors have to be near a reliable source of water for cooling, and in areas with no flood risk. River flood plains are not ideal, because of the flooding risk. River and lake locations are not ideal for another reason - the unpredictability of water levels due to variable weather conditions (deluge/ drought scenarios).

THEREFORE, the most logical place to build nuclear reactor plants is on coastlines.

FYI, London has no coastline. That is why there are, and will be, no nuclear plants built near London. QED.

This is not a NIMBY conspiracy by selfish Londoners, but simply engineering common sense.

However, the nearest nuclear reactor sites to London are (I believe) Sizewell in Suffolk and Dungeness in Kent. Both of these are within commuting distance of London, so not too distant from it really. Where is the nearest nuclear plant to you, goosegreece?
THIS IS DISGUSTING
[info]soaring_eagle1 wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 08:26 pm (UTC)
Houw bloody stupid can this government get!
Re: THIS IS DISGUSTING
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Sunday, 26 April 2009 at 11:38 pm (UTC)
Just cynical, my friend, just cynical and degenerated...
kirksanton nuclear site
[info]twinkle59 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 07:44 am (UTC)
Having read the above article RWE has now upped the number to a possible THREE reactors - THAT IS NOT WHAT THE LOCALS HAVE BEEN TOLD!! Why should we be surprised - no-one tells the truth until it is too late - as a local, we only found out about the nuclear site "by chance" - and then RWE had to tell us what was happening - or so we thought - now instead of ONE possibly TWO it has now gone up to possibly THREE now doubt when they get the necessary permission, they will up it again for their own ends -i.e. PROFIT. They have made no mention of where the nuclear waste will go - no doubt UNDER the local reisdents back gardens - seeing as they are very close to the actual plant itself. I ask you - who would fancy living within 250 yards of a nuclear site - any takers for our homes - I would think that not many would wish to take the risk.
New nuclear power plants
[info]victhebrit wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
Governments all over the world seem to want to build nuclear power plants far from population centres - perhaps fearing another TMI. Cumbria is a leukemia blackspot so why not build it there? Nuclear plants should be built where they're needed - in population centres to avoid the unnecassary pylons uglyfying the landscape - but of course nuclear is too dangerous to be built inside cities. Why not use the old Battersea power station site?
Re: New nuclear power plants
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 12:19 pm (UTC)
They build them far from population centres because the land is cheaper.
We are promised that this is safe.
[info]publunch99 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 06:41 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately we have had promises like this before, only for the truth to come out in the
end. The military-industrial complex has to face the fact that it has a big credibility problem
with the people of North Wales, North East England, South West Scotland, the Isle of Man
and the East coast of Ireland, who are all jaded with spin and PR already.

Sellafield has a lot of nuclear mess lying around.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/19/sellafield-nuclear-plant-cumbria-hazards

Now we hear that the MoD has been making a mess in the Clyde Estuary.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/19/sellafield-nuclear-plant-cumbria-hazards

Also, the MoD has been firing DU shells into the Solway.
http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/a/269.htm

So we don't want any more of this, even if it does mean electricity rationing.
Re: We are promised that this is safe.
[info]publunch99 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 07:12 pm (UTC)
Re: We are promised that this is safe.
[info]publunch99 wrote:
Monday, 27 April 2009 at 07:25 pm (UTC)
Oh, and after Chernobyl we had radioactive rain around here too.
Re: We are promised that this is safe.
[info]solipsistident wrote:
Tuesday, 28 April 2009 at 10:23 am (UTC)
Large scale application of nuclear energy will inevitably lead to catastrophies. If we set the example for the rest of the world, ALL the other countries will also want nuclear plants. Already now we see that our hesitation to start taking renewables serious has caused an increased interest amongst many "immature" countries to shift to nuclear energy.

It will lead to environmental problems in a number of different ways.

It will lead to societies developing into an increasingly more technocratic direction, where we alianate ourselves from the core values of being part of a living planet.

It will lead to proliferation of nuclear weapons, regardless of IAEA efforts.

And most of all, it won't help us for more than a couple of centuries at most, at ever increasing costs as high-grade deposits soon will get depleted.

We are living in sad times, knowing we have the technology to direct humanity into a more benign direction regarding energy production, but doing the opposite due to political blundering and greedy businesses.

The greatest pandemic of all times is happening right under our noses, and needs no virusses to spread: the debilisation of entire humanity through globalised insanity...
We all need to learn to live with less energy
[info]cit1zen wrote:
Friday, 1 May 2009 at 03:45 pm (UTC)
With all our carbon footprints so high, what we need to be doing first is to reduce the amount of energy we use in our lives. This will negate the need for the new nuclear stations.

Remember that the so called clean energy of nuclear demands massive amounts of fossil fuel energy to mine, refine and transport high grade uranium. The ore washing process involves injecting hundreds of tons of sulphuric acid, nitric acid, ammonia and other chemicals int the ground to dissolve the ores for several years before they are dug up.

The reserves around the worls are depleting predictably also, raising their price 6 fold between 2001 and 2006. Africa and the Caspian zone are the two known reserve areas - hardly known for their stability. With no new reactors, we have 50 years proven supply (approx 3.53 mt) but if Britain gets all its electricity from nuclear that drops to 7 years.


So choose nuclear, and you choose to emit the CO2 elsewhere, leave the pollution elsewhere and fuel conflict elsewhere for a few years and then scratch your heads at the senseless white elephants and nuclear waste left behind.
nuclear site "Have your say"
[info]twinkle59 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 10:03 am (UTC)
Has anyone else out there been having problems trying to get onto www.nuclearpowersiting.decc.gov.uk to register their comments about the forthcoming siting of nuclear sites? Isn't it amazing - one wonders why?(or not!) we cannot get into the site to register. I have tried three times this morning - and each time it will not let me into the site. It says there is an error!?

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