Mortgages

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A million frozen out of mortgage market

Experts fear 'excessive' lending rules will create financial underclass

By James Moore, Deputy Business Editor

Existing borrowers may also be hit when they come to remortgage

PA

Existing borrowers may also be hit when they come to remortgage

More than a million people could find themselves unable to buy a home after Britain's financial watchdog said it planned to ban lenders from offering mortgages to people who cannot prove their income.

Experts criticised what they said was an "over-reaction" from the Financial Services Authority, saying that while there were abuses in the run-up to the credit crunch, the vast majority of such "self-certification" loans were legitimate. Even the FSA said it accepted that the mortgage market worked well for "95 per cent of consumers".

As the borrower does not have to prove his or her income to their lender, self-cert mortgages are usually used by small businessmen and freelancers, whose numbers are set to increase significantly as unemployment continues to rise. Economists say the jobless total will not peak until next spring. Ray Boulger, senior technical manager at mortgage broker John Charcol, said: "This seems excessive. When the recovery gets under way and mortgages become more widely available they will be shutting people out of the market when what they are supposed to do is protect them.

"The FSA says it can't understand why anyone would need a self-certification mortgage. That's a damning indictment of its understanding of the market. Often a small business person will take one out because in the time it takes them to prepare the accounts they need to prove their income they could lose a house."

Mr Boulger estimated that a million or more of the 10 million home loans in Britain were self-certification mortgages. He said that the vast majority of them were perfectly legitimate.

The Council of Mortgage Lenders was more measured, but it expressed similar fears. Director general Michael Coogan said: "There is a risk that the new FSA rules may end up making it more difficult to get a mortgage for those people who used self-cert for perfectly legitimate reasons. We will want to work with the FSA to make sure that the new rules don't have negative spin-off consequences, and end up slowing down market recovery or excluding creditworthy borrowers."

There were also warnings that the FSA's plans could result in an increase in financial exclusion, with banks reverting to the practice of only lending to the "safest" borrowers for fear of the upsetting the watchdog.

Rosali Pretorius, financial markets and regulation partner at City law firm Denton Wilde Sapte said: "The FSA should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Not so long ago, there were widespread concerns on financial exclusion. Impose too many rigours on the banks and the 'hard-working families' the politicians are fond to speak of will have no access to lending to get on the housing ladder. Unusual applicants should not be excluded just because the breadwinners are self-employed or cannot easily get conventional insurance on account of medical conditions."

Privately, lenders voiced deep unhappiness about the plans, arguing that they were being criticised by the Government for failing to lend enough to consumers while the FSA was proposing new curbs.

But the watchdog defended its stance. Jon Pain, FSA managing director of supervision, said: "We are not trying to make it impossible for self-employed people to get mortgages. They will just have to prove their incomes." Mr Pain said that nearly "half" the mortgages advanced prior to the advent of the credit crunch were either self-certification or fast-tracked, meaning borrowers were able to obtain loans without providing any evidence that they could afford to pay them back.

"For the vast majority of consumers the mortgage market works well. What we are trying to do is deal with the excesses. There are still 400,000 people in arrears and if we can stop some people going through that, it would be a good thing."

Other measures being considered by the FSA include the possible introduction of a cap on the amount banks lend to people based on multiples of their incomes "in the future".

The watchdog also said it was concerned that large loans were frequently advanced to risky groups such as people with low incomes and/or high debt. It described this as a "toxic mix" and said it would act to prevent it from happening by forcing lenders to ensure borrowers pass "affordability tests".

It proposes making mortgage brokers personally accountable to the FSA while lenders are likely to be banned from imposing charges that allow them to profit when their customers go into arrears.

The FSA said its proposals followed the emergence of banks engaging in what it called "high-risk lending strategies which typically focused on higher risk borrowers; relaxed credit standards; and a mutual assumption by too many borrowers and lenders that the good times could not end".

If they are adopted as they stand in yesterday's discussion paper they will mark a significant departure for the regulator, which has until now fought shy of regulating financial products, preferring to focus on the way they are sold.

The watchdog said consumers were as much at fault as lenders for problems in the market in the run-up to the credit crunch and suggested that they needed protecting from themselves.

"We believe that irresponsible borrowing has been just as much a part of the problem in the mortgage market as irresponsible behaviour by firms. Most consumers, of course, have acted responsibly, but a significant minority have made decisions which were imprudent and which they should have been in a position to recognise as such in advance," it said in its discussion document.

While the industry was unhappy with its proposals, consumer groups were more welcoming.

Which? chief executive Peter Vicary-Smith said: "We're pleased that the FSA is looking to take a more robust approach to regulating the mortgage market although we would like to see tougher measures such as a ban on mortgages over 100 per cent and the naming of lenders that mistreat their customers.

"Mortgage providers are already responsible for assessing affordability, so why is the FSA only getting tough on it now? Many borrowers are suffering the consequences of irresponsible lending."

Currently it is hard to get a mortgage of greater than 70 per cent of a home's value without paying a substantial premium but the market has been liberalising in recent weeks with lenders finally willing to take greater risks.

The new rules: Can you beat them?

*While tighter lending rules may help stop families over-committing themselves, the FSA's proposals could also hit anyone planning to take out a mortgage or remortgage.

A ban on self-certified loans would hit the self-employed and freelance workers, while new affordability tests could make it harder for first-time buyers.

Existing borrowers may also be hit when they come to remortgage as more cautious lenders may move them into a higher risk bracket.

The proposals will mean more paperwork for self-employed people. They will need to provide three years' worth of accounts, or a letter from their accountant confirming their income.

Anyone with less than three years' self-employment may still be able to get a mortgage, if they can prove affordability. Many lenders already use affordability rather than income levels as a way to decide whether to agree a loan. They generally want to examine bank statements – say six months' worth – to see how much money you have coming in and what your outgoings are.

If the FSA's proposals are adopted, lenders are likely to ask for even more details of your spending.

The net result will be that if you can't prove you can afford a mortgage, you won't get one. On top of that existing mortgage-holders who may have inflated their income to get their loan could have problems if they need to remortgage. Simon Read, Personal Finance Editor

Case study 'It will be much tougher for me'

*Georgina Burnett, 30, is a self- employed television presenter and life coach. She is getting married next September, and currently rents a house in Sevenoaks, Kent with her fiancée.

I became a headhunter after leaving university but I've been freelancing for about six years now. My fiancée and I moved in together a year ago, and chose to live outside London – even though both of us work there – because you get so much more for your money. We were always looking at properties.

However, the new rules make me think that I should hold off and save up for a bigger deposit.

People who go self-employed or freelance will find proving their income especially difficult, because – particularly when you first set out – your earnings are so uncertain.

Even people who are well established sometimes earn double in one month what they will in another. So I suppose the new regulations will make all self-employed people think twice about getting a mortgage. It is also a strange time to be self-employed. I have noticed that whereas before I'd be booked up well in advance, it is now all very last minute. At the beginning of the month you're looking at the number of days you've got booked in, unsure about how much you'll be earning. The last thing you want is a huge mortgage hanging over your head.

Although the other rules seem quite intrusive on the surface – the lenders will be able to look at exactly how much you're earning, and what you spend on your lifestyle – I suppose their argument is that if you've got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to worry about. If I was lending someone that much money, I'd want to know it was going to be paid back.

I kind of agree with the general idea behind the new rules, because things do have to change. I personally would never want to borrow more than I could afford to pay – I wouldn't want that kind of pressure on me. But this isn't going to help me get on to the property ladder.

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Comments

But what about the black economy workers?
[info]thomasgoodey wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 12:39 am (UTC)
But what about people who make a lot of their money on the black economy? I know a number of such people, principally small-timers in the building game - and while what they do is illegal, yes, stopping them from being able to house their families is not going to solve any problem. Actually when they buy houses they tend to go legitimate, or at least more legitimate, because the taxman now has an immobile target to assess and to attack. So in a sense, stopping them purchasing real estate will keep their money blacker than it would otherwise be, and will reduce the total tax take in the end.
Re: But what about the black economy workers?
[info]angrymediane wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:01 am (UTC)
We need people like you lot posting here on www.rantsite.co.uk to share your views with others, really cool forum site, which I just know you would love to get your teeth into
mortgages
[info]hamshaw wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 04:36 am (UTC)
And now we see the other side of the equation. Presumably there are now appox 1 million people who may be thinking again about those "greedy bankers" who were prepared to issue "junk mortgages" of 120% loan to value to anybody who walked through the door.
Common Sense Prevails (I am renting)
[info]over325one wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 06:14 am (UTC)
So prudence in economic matters freezes people out of a life of miserable debt freezes people out. So what!
Ray Boulger is an idiot.
[info]milesbatch wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:19 am (UTC)
Ray Boulger is an idiot. He was one of the idiots cranking things up prior to the "crash".
What's wrong with proving your income?
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:38 am (UTC)
I find this howl of protest quite ludicrous, having screamed shock horror over all those sub-prime mortgages and the banks’ disastrous irresponsible lending policies, apparently now it should not be necessary to have to prove your income to borrow shed-loads of money – a bit illogical no?
The statement that because people running small businesses would have “take time” to work out their accounts, they may lose the house they want smacks of spoilt children. I would suggest that anyone running any business, small or large, should be keeping sufficient track of their accounts to be able to pull up the relevant documentation without too much trouble, and if they aren’t, it makes one question their competence to be running a business in the first place. Similarly freelancers, and I am one of those, may have to wait a few years to get established, something that always used to be the case when starting out on any career, and of course earnings do tend to go up and down, but provided you can point to a reasonable portfolio of work, and your area of freelancing is credible, with professional qualifications and/or employed experience, there should be no problem.
Since when did “affordability” preclude taking account of you income? Affordability must depend on what money is coming in and what going out, with the outgoings divided into to “must” pay items and optionals like holidays and eating out. If insufficient funds are coming in you can’t afford the mortgage anyway and as the person interviewed said, you just have to save uip a bit longer for a bigger deposit.
this story is just junk
[info]deejbee wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:43 am (UTC)
If the reporter has listened more carefully to the FSA's announcment yesterday they would have noted that self-employed people would have to prove their income through their accounts, just like it's always been. This is nothing new as it's EXACTLY what I had to do about 6 years ago when I got a mortgage when I was self employed.
Mortgage misery and more to come
[info]kingofmumu wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
Due of the artificial price of property and size of mortgages today, people are having to struggle to make ends meet. Locally even before this orchestrated financial depression, we did not have the jobs that can provide enough income to maintain most morgage payments. The housing stock will have to half its value before first time buyers will be able to afford to buy. The only way to ensure this will happen is to flood the already struggling market with 1000s of social and private affordable houses. Our present housing stock is grossly over valued, just as Sterling and other western currancies are. Parents used to assist their children with deposits, but the have no surplus left to do so now. People have juggled their finances for the last 20 years by re-mortgaging using credit cards then taking out loans to pay them off. We have reached the end of the line, its time to pay the piper. We should scrap this consumer driven way of living, and put a more realistic and greener way of existance into force. If we do not comply very soon, look out, we are already looking down the gun barrel of world war 3. Which will cure all of the above problems and more, at a stroke. I am for the Greener way of life. I have never been part of a world war, but some how I know its not an option for me. In the end its all down to greed and putting ourselves first all the time. I have been guilty of this, has anyone else?
Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 07:54 am (UTC)
Another thought: why is it assumed that everyone MUST own a house? Very much down to Thatcher of course when she flogged off all those council houses back in the 80s, a similar ideology prevails in the States, when the “dream” home is somehow seen as a right, not an aspiration.
This policy did much to ruin the rental market in the UK and US. Historically, in continental Europe this insistence on home ownership was much less the case, leading to a real choice of rent or buy that successive property bubbles in the UK have tended to put paid to. If there is no realistic alternative to home ownership, people will get into trouble and, worse way, find themselves homeless, so the fact that property prices have taken a bit hit will actually do people favours in two ways, firstly, if purchase prices are lower more people will actually be able afford to buy and secondly, all those people regarding house purchase a sort of investment lottery ticket and potential cash cow will be have learnt their lesson, for a few years at least, and the demand for rentals is likely to go up, itself creating a new market.
Re: Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]starlingnl wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 09:47 am (UTC)
Hey, I don't mind renting. Wait, I do. Because rented houses are awful. There's mould on my ceiling, the shower doesn't work, the central heating is paltry, and I'm COLD, since the insulation is so bad all the heat goes straight out of the window. Landlords can virtually get away with murder (they don't have to keep to the rules, they can just kick out the tenant if they complain). THAT is why people don't want to rent.
Re: Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]dogsolitude_v2 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 11:09 am (UTC)
What's wrong with renting... Well... Renting in the UK is not like renting in Europe.

1 - No security. A Landlord can give you two month's notice to move out if they want to sell, or let one of their kids live there. This has happened to me three times. You can be thrown out for any other arbitrary reason too, such as complaining about the state of the place.

2 - Cannot insulate or make other home improvements. My heating bills are astronomical. If I owned this place I'd've replaced the boiler yonks ago, and fitted double-glazing.

3 - Rented money is dead money. You're not accruing any equity in rent payments. You can rent for 50 years and you'll still never own your home. It's just a way for those who can afford multiple properties to enrich themselves whilst keeping others off the ladder.

Until tenants have the same rights as tenants in Europe, with much longer rental periods, guaranteed tenancy periods measured in years rather than months, contracts where you can redecorate and make improvements and other such rights, the 'what's wrong with renting' remareks will be treated with much-deserved derision by those of us priced out of the market.
Re: Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]starlingnl wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 01:10 pm (UTC)
I agree with the first two, but not with the third. My rent is less than a third of what it would be if I had a mortgage for the same place (600 rent, 2000 mortgage), and I can put the rest in the bank and get interest on it.

Don't forget that once you've paid off the mortgage, it's likely you'll have actually paid double for your house. Bought the house for 100,000 quid? After 25 years, you'll have paid the bank 200,000 quid. You're throwing 100,000 quid down the drain anyway. At the end of the term, you'll have a house, I'll have rather a lot of money (and I won't have had to pay for the upkeep of the house).
Re: Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]dogsolitude_v2 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 02:27 pm (UTC)
This a great idea, and works beautifully when the interest repayments on a mortgage for an equivalent property are roughly in line with the rent.

You're lucky in that your rent is a lot less than the mortgage: investing £1400 every month will make you some serious money!

Unfortunately round our way things are a bit different. :/
Re: Act II: What every happened to the rental market?
[info]starlingnl wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 10:07 pm (UTC)
I've done a lot of comparing around here, and renting's always cheaper, even though our rents aren't actually that low (my 600 quid is low for a house like this, other houses in the street go for 800, and even that's muuuuuuch lower than the mortgage would be). It didn't used to be like that, 10 years ago buying was definitely cheaper.

Oh well, I'm aiming at moving to Germany at some point and renting a proper place. Or even buying one, the houses are a lot cheaper over there.
The Way We Were.
[info]tim_hinchliffe wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC)
What I'm noticing more and more, recently, is a lot of rewriting of recent history, mostly by people with a serious vested interest in the 'status quo ante'.
At the height of the crisis, we were told, and it seemed sensible at the time, that the trouble was exacerbated by the fact that we were all living in a financial bubble caused by artificially supported house prices, caused in turn by the fact that my dog could get a mortgage if he asked for one.
Now, the FSA is trying to prevent the same thing happening again, and all we hear is that its not fair to people who haven't got any money to stop them buying a house they can't pay for. In fact, they might be so disappointed by their thwarted ambitions that they just flatly refuse to re-elect the party that created the situation.
It's entirely possible that if house prices weren't kept idiotically high by the availability of credit to anyone with a pulse, people might find it easier to buy one, not harder. Our next Boom would just have to based on something else, that's all. Maybe manufacturing things, or something.

Consumers criticise scare mongering from "experts"
[info]yippydawg wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC)
Yet again the so called housing "experts" dominate the headlines with scare stories about housing. Could these experts possibly be any more discredited than they already are? They had their chance, they blew it, get these guys off your pages please.

How about some alternative stories for you:

"FSA in telling banks not to lend people more than they can afford shocker"

"People happy as housing prices move back to affordability after years of silly money"

"Media in common sense reporting of housing market stunner"

If only...
Re: Consumers criticise scare mongering from "experts"
[info]starlingnl wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 10:07 am (UTC)
Stupidly enough, "FSA in telling banks not to lend people more than they can afford shocker" would actually be a shock, even though that's exactly what they should do.

I'm self-employed, pay extra tax because of it, and if this goes ahead will never own a house. Oh well, I'm moving to Germany as soon as I can, where I will be renting a decent house.
do someting effective
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC)
enact British Glass Steagall Acts, to keep high street and merchant banking seperate; that would prevent another debacle
Re: do someting effective
[info]xoman08 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 11:19 am (UTC)
whawk1951

I totally agree with you. We need a Glass-Steagall Act.
In the US it was introduced in 1933 after the Depression. But then it was repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. and that planted the seeds of the last property bubble and current problems.

It is necessary to separate retail banking from Investment banking. No but, no excuses ... If they say that London will lose weight as a financial centre, then so be it. Most of them are parasites anyway.
Re: do someting effective
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 11:33 am (UTC)
I agree, such Acts merely protect depositors- so what's the harm?
Comment or Spam
[info]fwmyork wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 10:52 am (UTC)
Best quality, Best reputation , Best services...
Are these people paying the Independent for advertising rights?
Re: Comment or Spam
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 11:34 am (UTC)
complain to the Indie
Excuses.
[info]proffo wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 12:46 pm (UTC)
"The FSA says it can't understand why anyone would need a self-certification mortgage. That's a damning indictment of its understanding of the market. Often a small business person will take one out because in the time it takes them to prepare the accounts they need to prove their income they could lose a house."

So, a small business person just suddenly decides to buy a house, eh ? I would have thought that taking out a mortgage to buy a house is one of the biggest financial commitments that most people ever make. I would have thought that most small business people will have their accounts reasonably up to date (at least up until the last tax year), and if the a lender needs proof of more recent income, what`s wrong with showing them the latest few bank statments ?

No, Mr. Boulger, I think that you are just making excuses for your industry. If you were going to lend your own money to someone, wouldn`t you want to make sure they had the means to pay it back first ?
The Boulger Fan Club.
[info]chipmem1 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 01:20 pm (UTC)

I've aready had one comment taken off on my opinion of this,......
see nearly did it again.

Some of us have already joined the Steagul mentality, it's called joining a
building society, only to find that a large amount of their money is
also raised on the wholesale markets.

Your not just paying YOUR banks costs, but a foreign banks and a series
of derivative brokers as well and maybe you could argue legally that your
house doesn't belong to your bank.

Maybe someone could explain where the ownership really lies ? , but
Ray Boulger, he doesn't care where the money comes from, neither
does all the other invested interested posted here.


Buy to let Oh NO!
[info]bleedingekk wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 01:23 pm (UTC)
Oh no it's back to the 'Buy to Let' farce. The cost of housing in Britain is rediculous. The majority of properties for sale are not fit for human inhabitance and the prices far too high. The price of housing must come down to a level where normal working people can afford them on the meager pay we get. Right now what's happening is the well-off are scooping up the properties and renting them out to working people who would gladly buy if they could
hopefully this will kick 'buy to let' up the arse
[info]partridge_41 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 04:31 pm (UTC)
Hopefully this will actually have the effect of delivering a huge kick up the arse to 'buy-to-let', which by nature widens and deepens the rich-poor gap in this country, ushering more and more people from the middle into either 'have' or 'havenot' brackets (making Blair's and Brown's pride at the artificial 'never-had-it-so-good' partly created by buy-to-let all the more shameful, so far is buy-to-let removed from what I understand the Labour party to stand for). Buy-to-let also encourages incessant housebuilding, often on flood plains, on an already seriously crowded island of diminishing green and personal space. Slum housing can be defined how you want it, but if you look at the houses built on 'estates' 100 years ago and compare the size of the garden and build quality to those built today, you'd be appalled. I can hear my neighbours' mobiles, alerting them to incoming text messages, through the walls. THAT is slum housing, even though there is not a spot of rising damp in sight. An Englishman's home is anything but a castle these days. Studies of laboratory animals have showed an increase in aggressive behaviour the less personal space the animals were allowed. Hmmm...where are those crime stats...

Still, we have an appetite for property ownership and this type of regulation proposed ought to lead to increasing credit risk confidence within the banking sector, which may in turn allow them to start lending again, kickstarting the market, in terms of sales volumes (which has important knock-on effects to the wider economy - furniture, white goods etc) if not price hikes. The government could help by reducing the tax on geographical mobility known as stamp duty. Haha, no way. Currently, much of the southeast of England will have to stump up at least 10 grand to move homes. The recent assumption that you can stick this on the mortgage, because your house price will go up by that within 3 or 4 months anyway, has gone out of the window. If we move jobs, move counties, we'll now have to find this in ready cash. Ouch. Anyone suddenly feeling a bit stuck ? Business could do without having to pick up the tab for relocation packages right now but they may have to in order to attract quality staff.

Hopefully a blow, if not a death blow, to buy-to-let will free up much more of the existing housing stock for those who want to buy their own homes. Increased supply would initially temporarily depress prices even further but ironically should help the sort of people that will be encouraged to moan about the proposed measures, by making housing more affordable for them. With increased demand from these people the market would soon come back up to where it naturally wants to be, if it is allowed to.
wow
[info]gowithwi wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 03:33 pm (UTC)
i all me years i have failed to find these magic banks ,
that freely give you a loan without prove of income.
i am very happy to have readers respond to my quest
of this magical aladins cave. names please
i have got a cunning plan to enrich myself,but alas
banks just don t lend money like that . matter of fact is ,that they are
not even interested in my cunning plan. so please any reader knowing
some sort of bank ,that gives out loans in the heat of the
spiritual sharing of ideas,please list them. thank you
In defence of landlords, this one anyway.
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 03:37 pm (UTC)
Shame on me for I am a landlord. When we moved to Italy, we decided to rent here and keep on our London flat, in case we wanted to come back, which we now will be doing in 2011, when the mortgage is finished.
Our flat is rented out through an agent who makes a large commission on the rental.. Admittedly it is on a yearly renewal contract with 3 months’ notice either way, but that way they make more money still on the yearly renewal.
Because this was never a rent-to-buy scam but our only family home, it is in our absolute interest to keep the place in good condition and in 11 years we have only had 2 different tenants. Whenever the slightest thing goes wrong we have to pay to replace/repair it, which we do promptly. Here in Italy, everything is at our own expense, we even have to insure the house, as well as the contents, as we were warned the landlord could make a claim on us if the place burnt down.
Any time the tenants want to redecorate, we are only to happy to give our permission, although with the latest lot they are more likely to demand we send a builder in to do the job.
We are not all greedy grasping exploiters, my husband is on a pension and I am a poorly paid freelance translator, after the agent has had their cut and we have paid UK tax, the rent just about pays the mortgage and insurance (a mortgage taken out in 1991 with a smallish top-up 5 years ago).
Partridge-41
[info]chipmem1 wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 06:18 pm (UTC)

Don't know whether your interested or already know , that housing is built to last
about half the time now compared to the turn of century. There are estates
around here, built in the seventies with cracks appearing, some even abandoned

..............

We're a nation of crooks, bandits and thieves and a government that couldn't
take an interest. You see, paying over the odds for half as much is called...

" the market delivering "
Gold Fraud UK Style
[info]pcolloids wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 06:55 pm (UTC)
Certain central banks such as the Bag Lady of Threadneedle Street (nickname of the Bank of England) has rushed to the rescue of her agents, the bullion banks, trying to bail them out by offering substandard (22 carat) gold in settlement of contracts at the verge of being defaulted.

There seems to be circumstantial evidence that this month the gold exchanges are unable to honor their expiring contracts for which delivery notices have been issued in September. It has occurred in spite of a robust, even increasing, contango. Furthermore, circumstantial evidence exists that counterparties to these expiring contracts for future delivery - bullion banks, to be precise, the name of J.P.Morgan and Deutsche Bank being prominently mentioned - have offered bribe money up to 125 percent of the quoted spot price to holders of long contracts if they would take settlement in paper, on condition that the embarrassing affair will be kept secret. If true, these maneuvers are motivated by the desire to conceal the real gold basis, and to deny that gold is in or approaching backwardation. If the truth were widely known, then there would be a run on the bullion banks. The "let's get physical" movement would trigger a chain-reaction culminating in all offers to sell physical gold being permanently withdrawn around the globe. "Gold would not be for sale at any price", whether quoted in US or in Zimbabwe dollars - or, for that matter, in any irredeemable currency - the only kind of money people are allowed to have nowadays. The curtain would fall on the "Last Contango in Washington". The day of permanent gold backwardation would dawn. The chapter on a reactionary episode of history, irredeemable currency, allowing the Treasury and its central bank to create unlimited liabilities out of nothing which they have neither the means nor the intention to honor, but could use them for check-kiting purposes to mesmerize gullible people around the world, would be closed and become but a bad memory.
Central banks are aiding and abetting the plunder of the sovereign assets of their countries to bail out their agents or friends in an attempt to "sweep the whole bloody mess under the carpet".

Toronto analyst Rob Kirby?s recounting of the behind-the-scenes activity that recently drove up the price of gold is but one example of this on-going battle. On the last day in September, Kirby reported large buyers of gold entered the futures market and demanded immediate physical delivery on the September contract.
The counterparties, allegedly JP Morgan Chase and Deutsche Bank, both complicit in the central bank suppression of gold, counter offered with premiums 25% above spot if the contracts could be settled with paper money instead of physical gold but the buyers refused, sending gold to record highs as the banks scrambled to deliver gold they did not own.

Questions were also raised about the quality of the gold bars delivered. Evidently, the bars provided by the Bank of England had to be re-cast as to meet the .999 quality necessary for delivery

mortgages will change with the new rules
[info]flomo wrote:
Friday, 23 October 2009 at 12:23 pm (UTC)
I imagine that if Self-Cert mortgages are banned, something different yet similar will pop up to replace it.

For example, if a self employed individual wants to get a mortgage, they need, generally, 2 years accounts, and if they don't have them, they need a self cert mortgage.

What I imagine will happen is we will see a new class of mortgage, namely the "1 yrs trading figures mortgage", which will solve the problem for a lot of people, and no doubt be charged at the same rate as the self cert would otherwise have been priced.

What concerns me however, is that it is difficult enough for the averagte consumer to get to grips with the current array of mortgage options, and I imagine that the result of these changes will be a completely new set of mortgage products, many of which will probably be phased out pretty quickly once a few main ones take hold. In fact I would recommend anyone who is looking for a mortgage to ensure they get good quality mortgage advice from an independent source, as things will probably get more tricky before they get an easier.
[info]terrymarsdens wrote:
Wednesday, 28 October 2009 at 11:33 am (UTC)
Shouldn't someone take a look at the actual price of these properties and mortgages and decide if they are actually overpriced somewhat? It seems that people's greed of wanting second homes is causing this market inbalance.
[info]tonyjonson1 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 07:48 pm (UTC)
I find these buy to let mortgages figures really quite shocking.