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Dollar tumbles on report of its demise

Gold price at record high as Independent story sends global markets into a frenzy

By Stephen Foley in New York

Traders work on the floor at the New York Stock Exchange yesterday, when the dollar index fell 0.7 per cent

AP

Traders work on the floor at the New York Stock Exchange yesterday, when the dollar index fell 0.7 per cent

The price of gold is surging on world markets amid fears that the old economic order based on the supremacy of the US dollar could be breaking down.

A new spike has sent the cost of the precious metal to a level not seen before. The dollar slid sharply after yesterday's report in The Independent that Gulf Arab states are secretly planning to stop trading oil in dollars, and a senior UN official said that the US should be stripped of its position as the main source of currency reserves for other countries.

The developments come on top of speculation that the Obama administration is operating a policy of benign neglect of the dollar, engineering a devaluation that could help repair some of the economic damage caused by the recession.

Not since the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1971 has gold been treated as the equivalent of a world currency, but The Independent reported that it could form part of a basket of currencies that would be used for oil trading by the end of the next decade.

Aram Shishmanian, the chief executive of World Gold Council, said: "The financial and economic instability of the past 18 months has brought gold's historical role into sharp focus and has continued to increase its prominence among policy advisers, central banks, and investors around the world.

Across the world, investors have been reaching for gold as an alternative to the dollar and to other US assets, fearing that the American currency is headed inexorably lower.

The dollar index – which measures the greenback against other currencies – fell 0.7 per cent yesterday and the dollar was lower against all major currencies except the British pound.

The US government's debt – which stands at $11.86 trillion (£7.45trn) after tax revenues collapsed with the recession and the Treasury spent billions on propping up the banking system – would be easier to repay if the value of the dollar was lower. Economists noted that the US resisted pressure to include a promise to protect the stability of world currencies in last weekend's communiqué from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), sparking growing concern that the Obama administration could be content to see the currency fall. That would make US exports more competitive and could spark a manufacturing jobs revival.

Overseas governments are in a bind because they hold trillions of dollars as reserves to protect them against a financial crisis. They are seeing the value of those reserves decline, but starting to swap them for gold or other currencies could deluge world markets with unwanted dollars and send the value of the greenback even lower. The situation is particularly sensitive for oil-producing nations, who are paid in dollars for their exports and therefore hold high dollar reserves.

Gulf Arabs have begun planning – with China, Russia, Japan and France – to move from dollar dealings for oil to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, which includes Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean oil will no longer be priced in dollars. The revelation was met with public denials yesterday. The Saudi central bank governor, Muhammad al-Jasser, said: "The future is in God's hands. Today, the conditions are good for the arrangement we have." The Japanese Finance Minister, Hirohisa Fujii, said he "doesn't know anything about it".

Dennis Gartman, the US investment guru who writes the daily Gartman Letter, said that no one should be surprised to hear denials. "We are certain that spokespeople for every single nation will be brought to the fore to deny that any such meetings have occurred, that no such decisions have been made, that it is not in anyone's interest to have held such meetings or made such decisions," he told clients as The Independent story broke. "The market will care not a whit."

Simon Johnson, the IMF's former chief economist, said the countries involved would calculate that it was not in their interests to drive the dollar down by eroding its position as the currency of international commodities trading and central bank reserves.

"It would only be great news for the US. The US would love a little bit of devaluation, even though they can't say it," he said. "They have to pay lip service to the strong dollar policy, but if someone else were to engineer a devaluation, that would be lucky break for the US."

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Comments

Dollar Tumbles
[info]jazzwhistle wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 12:12 am (UTC)
0.7% is a tumble? Independent story sends global markets into a frenzy? Sorry, but I'm looking at the charts now, and there no sign of tumble or frenzy.
Re: Dollar Tumbles
[info]knowledge2see wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:17 pm (UTC)
Made me giggle...
a matter of timing
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:12 pm (UTC)
watch for it after a mid Oct pullback, when GLD reaches 1050 - that will signal that 1K is history and the funny money will flood in
'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE
[info]filka_morozov wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:36 am (UTC)

'cos your FINISHED and you're WASHED-UP and no-one will cry,
you've been printing worthless money and it's all been a LIE,
and this'll be the day that you died.
Yes, this'll be the day that you died.
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE
[info]daveycooper wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:22 am (UTC)
Well, I hope you'll enjoy your utopia when China or Russia are the world power. Two countries with excellent records of philanthropism and human rights.
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]haroldplinth - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]daveycooper - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:07 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]daveycooper - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]someofusknow - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 10:22 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]haggiss91 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]goinforbroke - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]theelectrician - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:05 am (UTC) Expand
BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]daveycooper - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]daveycooper - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:29 am (UTC) Expand
Re: BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]corporatelies - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]daveycooper - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]snotcricket - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 12:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]corporatelies - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]snotcricket - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]snotcricket - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]kowalski99 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]kowalski99 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]filka_morozov - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE
[info]knowledge2see wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:17 pm (UTC)
Sorry, have you failed to notice years and years of atrocities committed by the US all over the world?! Take a long look at US history, how it came to 'rule the world' and maintian global dominance...
Re: 'cos it's BYE, BYE, MISS AMERICAN PIE - [info]toobigadog - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 10:42 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]tonygfd wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:34 am (UTC)
10 years from now: "America?...its somewhere near Brazil....do they speak mandarin ?"
Change of the guard
[info]49niner wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 04:44 am (UTC)
Too many wars and too many consumer booms based on credit. Both Britain and the US have been storing up trouble for themselves for decades. The writing is on the wall.

For Britain, the long-term logic is to join the Euro which in its ten years of existence has defied the doomsayers and gone from strength to strength. More countries are due to join over the next few years, and we are in danger of being left out in the cold.

All empires reach a peak and then decline. It happened to Britain a century ago. The first signs that the might of the US is on the wane have been there for a while. This will be the century of the BRICs. We must recognise reality and go with the flow. A realistic appraisal of our place in the world is long overdue. There are definite advantages in NOT being a world power. If only we'd realise it.
Har! Har!
[info]afghant wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:40 am (UTC)
It's just so funny.
And Israel Wants US Aid in Euros
[info]afghant wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:46 am (UTC)
And Israel wants US Tax Payer funded aid in Euros: http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_il_aid_euros.pdf
Re: And Israel Wants US Aid in Euros
[info]rain1950 wrote:
Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 12:55 am (UTC)
I wouldn't give Israel any aid. Legally Israel owes the US Billions http://bit.ly/ja9EU
Israel is just a bunch of frauds.
PLANNED
[info]georgesign wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:24 am (UTC)
This is part of a planned cycle that has been going on since the private banking families took back control of the world money system in 1913 after the meeting on Jekyll Island. Huge amounts of wealth are transferred to the few from the savings and earnings of the many by the steady erosion of currency. In the USA recently it was whole-sale confiscation by the Fed with the acquiescence of the government.
liberals..........
[info]darryn87 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
and all you liberal lefties out there think the US can simply continue to print money to pay for all these public goverment programes. you are insane. people like bob chapman and gerald celente have been warning about what is now happening, for years; decades even, and nobody listens. you are all stuck in your ideological bubble of multi-culturalism and political correctness and cannot hear the truth, even when it is shouted at you. even so called far right political parties like the BNP have forseen these developments, and all you twits out there can do is whine about how they don't want britain to be colonized by africans or muslims; for your own sake, wake the hell up fools! the western world is about to end, and what's to come? certainly not your liberal politically correct do-gooding "cool britannia" society, thats for sure.
Gold
[info]gadutt wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:29 am (UTC)
Gold, or a basket of currencies including gold, may replace the dollar temporarily. But a longer term sustainable world economic system will only be reached when the environment is factored in, because the world economy ultimately depends on the level of its remaining environmental resources. Trees, not gold, would be a better standard.
Dollar Tumbles????
[info]jadroo wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:49 am (UTC)
The dollar may be declining, but to claim this is the result of an Independent article is absurd.

I checked the rates yesterday and the dollar is sligtly firmer against the pound compared to yesterday. Do you think your readers are stupid?
Re: Dollar Tumbles????
[info]billdavy1949 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:34 am (UTC)
But only stronger against the pound sterling.

We need to stop pretending (and spending as if) we are a world superpower. So, cancel the aircraft carrier fleet and Trident. The sooner we accept our proper place, the sooner we can start dealing with issues that really matter.

We will also become a lot less attractive to terrorists, which will enable us to cancel the Id card business (and reduce the price of passports which has been jacked up massively).

Treat drug addiction as a sickness which will reduce acquisitive crime, enable us to close prisons, and enable us to take a proper view on Afghanistan.

But none of these things will happen until we are bankrupt.
Re: Dollar Tumbles???? - [info]jadroo - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 11:27 am (UTC) Expand
firmer against what? - [info]cronyblatcher - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: firmer against what? - [info]jadroo - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: firmer against what? - [info]cronyblatcher - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: firmer against what? - [info]jadroo - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 05:27 am (UTC) Expand
Just remind me
[info]geiseric wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
What was the price of gold when our wonderful chancellor/prime minister sold 60% of our reserves? About $275 an ounce. The current price is $1042 an ounce. How wonderful and wise this man is.
Re: Just remind me
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:55 am (UTC)
but what if the chancellor invested the gold sale proceeds and, in the time to now, has earned similar or greater returns than not selling the gold and holding it?

I bet you have no idea whether this is true or not.

Still, no need not to offer an opinion these days is it.

Three steps to enlightenment

1. Google "UK reserves".
2. Hot the first link to the BoE http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/reserves/intro.htm
3. Click the Historic data link http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/reserves/Backdata.pdf
4. Learn (hint page 1 table 1)
5. try and pretend that its all changed since 1997. Then click the Current data link

6. Wonder why you buy the Independent

Re: Just remind me - [info]geiseric - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Just remind me - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Just remind me - [info]geiseric - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 10:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Just remind me - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 10:19 am (UTC) Expand
Dollar Death Inevitable?
[info]arion444 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:16 am (UTC)
Considering the amount of U.S. debt that China and Japan hold in the form of U.S. Treasury Bonds, is it any wonder that as the deficits in the U.S. mushroom the guys holding the bag would want to offload it? This is the real threat to the $$, not the tinpot sheiks in Saudi Arabia.
Re: Dollar Death Inevitable?
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:50 am (UTC)

Correction: the tinpots hold close to the amounts held by the Chinese.
Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again.
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:45 am (UTC)
[The situation is particularly sensitive for oil-producing nations, who are paid in dollars for their exports and therefore hold high dollar reserves.]

This is drivel. Once any oil transaction is done producers can exchange the dollars they get for any currency in the worlds deepest most liquid FX market, the US dollar market.

There is no compulsion or even incentive to HOLD dollars just because the transaction is done in dollars.

People have held dollars because they CHOSE TO DO SO.

When will this sink into the collective "Indy editorial" consciousness? Its a worry that such a simple idea seems beyond one of our leading media sources of information for our voters isn't it?

p.s. using any gold in the "basket" would massively increase the price of gold. Were at a future date the basket to drop gold, prices would crash. Anyone want to hold gold in this world?

p.p.s. Why was France the only oil consuming nation in this alleged secret cabal plotting alleged dollar demise? All the others were oil exporters. Whats going on there then?
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again.
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:10 am (UTC)

The only country the petro-dollar is good for is the USA. For all other countries, oil producers or consumers, it just ties their hands into the use of one model.
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:12 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]freedommonger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]vencejo13 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 12:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong again. Its the really simple stuff again. - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Look also forward to the demise of the Zionist Empire.
[info]stanleycorbett wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 09:12 am (UTC)

America will become like Mexico and Argentina as courageous Gore Vidal says in the other artical of today's Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gore-vidals-united-states-of-fury-1798601.html

Dollar Freefall
[info]riccardoj wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:47 pm (UTC)
Never trust the Russians - crafty peasant bastards; and neither the inscrutable Chinks.
They are all dreadful.
Riccardo J
Hampshire
change?
[info]knowledge2see wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 02:18 pm (UTC)
So when will the UK join the euro now? Only a matter of time...
Capitalism
[info]bleedingekk wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC)
It's not capitalism which is the problem but the basic human natural greed, the never ending cycle of wanting more and more and more and more.
Re: Capitalism
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:43 pm (UTC)
quite so. yet this is emotionally unacceptable, so we must invent someone else to blame that isn't.... well.... us.... and you..... and me.

Pathetic really isn't it? Are we worth saving?
Well, but...
[info]pixaholic wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:11 pm (UTC)
The US is still the dominant economy, because it's coherent in a way that the EU isn't, and developed in a way the PRC isn't. When the US economy recovers in a year or two, it'll come roaring back with inflationary concerns, and those who put gold and other questionable assets in their basket will be SOL. In the meantime, as mentioned, the US benefits from a cheaper dollar.
DXY 0.7% down
[info]hanks6 wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 05:18 pm (UTC)
funnily enough, the main reason why the DXY wasn't down so much on the day was because of greater weakness in the pound (one of the currencies in the basket).

the dollar has been steadily falling for a while now. nothing to worry about? how about the uk pound? just something to think about i guess.
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THE DEMISE OF THE DOLLAR AND INDY COVER
[info]lillystuart wrote:
Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 11:42 pm (UTC)
Excellent reporting in the last 2 days! I have followed this market for 8 years, and find it refreshing to read about it WITHOUT DISINFORMATION OR PROPAGANDA. Congratulations to all of you, who covered this.
Truely INDEPENDENT coverage.
I would like to draw your attention to The Gold Antitrust Action committee ( G.A.T.A), at www. gata.org, which has further information, which would be of greatest interest to your readers. Especially that the US dollar has been propped up for a long time - to maintain the dollar hegemony.
Also, to achieve this, gold prices have been kept articially low, eg via Mr Brown and the Bank of England SELLING gold at the BOTTOM of its price of about ?250 US$. Gold is now, as we all know US$ 1,040.00. Britain could use this lost money!
Furthermore , interest rates have been kept articifically low - but that’s another story I will not into now - highly related, though. Please DO go to www. gata. org - or even better: why not interview Mr Bill Murphy, the originator of GATA. You’ll find a lot of interesting info from him. you can reach him at: LePatron@LeMetropoleCafe.com. (‘LeMetropoleCafe.com’ is GATA's website for all news). Best wishes Lilly