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Mikheil Saakashvili: Georgia on his mind, Moscow on his back

After the disaster of last summer's war, the charismatic president of the former Soviet republic hopes it won't be sacrificed to improve US-Russian relations. Shaun Walker meets Mikheil Saakashvili

Saakashvili insists that the invasion of his country by Russia was unprovoked and part of Vladimir Putin's longterm plans

reuters

Saakashvili insists that the invasion of his country by Russia was unprovoked and part of Vladimir Putin's longterm plans

It's the watch that bothers me. Everything else is presidential – the pressed shirt and sharp tie; the aides tiptoeing in with overflowing bowls of cherries and mulberries, and the huge, book-lined interview room done out in soft woods inside a new, Reichstag-inspired presidential palace. But amid all this pomp, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili is wearing a chunky blue plastic watch that appears to depict frolicking rabbits.

In a region where presidents tend to prefer hugely expensive Swiss timepieces to quirky novelty numbers, it's odd to say the least. But then Saakashvili never was much like any of the other presidents in the region – former party officials turned kleptocrats presiding over systemically corrupt dictatorships. When Saakashvili came to power in the Rose Revolution of 2003, he promised a fundamentally new form of government for the region. The post-Soviet legacy of corruption, privilege and autocracy would be swept aside to make way for a bright new era of democracy, meritocracy and economic development.

That was then, of course, and this is now. The heady days of George W Bush dancing in the streets of Tbilisi, Saakashvili's Georgia being hailed as a "beacon of freedom", and a steady stream of Western correspondents leaving interviews dazzled by his democratic credentials and general all-round charm, are long gone. In the interim came a crackdown on peaceful protesters, an increasingly belligerent opposition movement demanding his resignation, which in recent months has taken to blocking off central Tbilisi roads with pretend prison cells, and the small matter of a devastating war with Russia. When I last met him, a little more than a year ago, he said that one of his major ambitions was for Georgia to become so stable and prosperous that ruling it would be a "boring task". It hasn't quite worked out that way.

But Saakashvili – or, as everybody calls him, Misha – doesn't allow us to begin with negative talk. No sooner have I shaken his hand than he is bounding across the room like an excited child to show me photos of five-star hotels and other architectural developments planned for the Georgian Black Sea resort of Batumi.

"The first investments were made almost as a charity case, but now it's taking off, and we expect tourist numbers to rise 10-fold in the next three years," he says, speaking at a hundred miles an hour in the fluent, lightly accented English that he honed while studying at Columbia University in New York. His mop of black hair is greying slightly at the sideburns, but otherwise he doesn't look like a man tired and burnt out after the last year.

Picture after picture of impressive palatial developments, combined with his effervescent commentary, and I'm almost convinced that Batumi can be the new Barcelona, and Georgia can be the Singapore of the Caucasus.

There's one problem, of course – Russia. With all links cut with Georgia's former major trading partner, the country's exports have dropped dramatically, and with Saakashvili the Kremlin's bête noire, many worry that Russia may pop back into Georgia to finish the job it started last year.

With a new incumbent in Washington, this could be more likely. Outside the American South, few tears were shed when Bush left the White House. But while the world was breathing a collective sigh of relief, Georgians were petrified. Bush had seen Georgia as an important – perhaps the only – neocon success project. Saakashvili enthusiastically packed off soldiers to fight in Iraq, and even named a street in Tbilisi after the Texan president, who treated Misha like a prodigal son.

With Barack Obama coming into office, priorities in Washington shifted. Talk began about a new era of relations with Russia, sticky issues such as Georgia were to be forgotten, and Hillary Clinton even presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with a "reset button" to symbolise a new start for bilateral relations. In Tbilisi the uneasy joke was that the button was also a detonator, destroying hopes of Georgian independence.

President Obama travels to Moscow tomorrow for his first official visit, a much-hyped trip with hopes on both sides for revived engagement. The worry in Tbilisi will be that Georgia will be sold out to the Russians for bigger geopolitical issues. With tensions again rising in the region, Russia conducting huge military exercises on Georgia's border, and a feeling in some sections of the Russian elite that the job wasn't finished properly last summer, Saakashvili says he is hoping that the US president will choose his words carefully in Moscow.

"If Obama says something that looks like some kind of permission for something, then they will go for it. That's why every word counts. You are dealing with Byzantine traditions and doublespeak with Russia, which is hard for the West to understand."

Still, says Saakashvili, his government has received positive signals from the new administration. "I've spoken to Obama several times, and we have a very good working relationship with this administration at every level. They are fresh and focused."

In Moscow, meanwhile, the name Saakashvili has taken on the air of a swear word. Top Russian officials recoil at the mention of the Georgian president's name. President Dmitry Medvedev has referred to him as a "political corpse", and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has said he wants to see Saakashvili "hung by the balls". Both sides react with fury and disbelief when it's suggested that they were responsible for last August's war. Putin claims that hostilities started when Saakashvili recklessly sent tanks into South Ossetia and the Russians had no choice but to respond. Saakashvili insists that the Russian invasion was unprovoked and part of a long-term plan of Putin's to occupy Georgian territory. The truth may be that both sides bear their share of responsibility, though Saakashvili denies this furiously, calling those who wish to believe that he started the war "willingly uninformed".

Putin, says Saakashvili, told him shortly after the recognition of Kosovo by the United States and many European countries, a move that Russia vehemently opposed, that there would be consequences in the Caucasus. "He said: 'You have to pay for your allies. Your allies just recognised Kosovo, and we have to do something. But it won't be very painful for you, don't worry.' It was like somebody standing with an axe at your head and saying 'Don't worry, everything's OK, just close your eyes and relax.'"

Medvedev, who is widely regarded as less of a hawk and less powerful than Putin, has joined in the rhetoric condemning the Georgian president. But, claims Saakashvili, Medvedev as good as warned him that the war was coming a few weeks before the fateful day in August, at an informal dinner hosted by Kazakhstan's President Nursultan Nazarbayev in the Kazakh capital, Astana.

"At our first meeting in Moscow, Medvedev had offered to meet in Sochi in June. So I'd been chasing him since then and asking to meet, and he was always avoiding my calls.

"I cornered him at this dinner in Astana and said: 'Come on, let's meet...' He said: 'Now is not the time for meeting, it could end in disappointment.' I said: 'Well, come on, how could our relations be any worse than they are now?' He turned to me and said: 'Here you are mistaken. Very soon it can get much much much worse.' He didn't like that it was coming but couldn't do anything about it."

The Russians, never keen on a man who promised to bring his country out of Moscow's orbit and lead it into Nato and the European Union, have since last summer's war embarked on a fevered propaganda campaign to show that Saakashvili is so unstable that he's in need of medical help. Kremlin-funded English-language channel Russia Today regularly refers to him as "nuts", while Russian television has devoted prime-time slots to chat shows involving psychiatrists analysing Saakashvili's behaviour as classic psychopath material.

He certainly lost the plot at times during the war. One incident, where TV cameras caught him chewing on his tie while waiting to start an interview, has been replayed ad nauseam on Russian television. A joint press conference with Condoleezza Rice held in the hazy heat on the rooftop of his presidential palace was almost painful to watch, as the Georgian president appeared on the verge of tears and ranted semi-coherently about the Russian "barbarians".

But Saakashvili isn't nuts. Indeed, he is without a doubt the most intellectual and charismatic politician in the region. "I was certainly in a shaky mood, and it was visible," he admits, shovelling a handful of mulberries into his mouth. "But I think we pulled ourselves together, put the economy back on track, and found the force to continue the reforms."

Listening to him speak, I can't help being reminded of another politician who, while operating in a very different context, shares a remarkably similar political trajectory to Saakashvili. Coming to power at a time of general disillusionment with politics and the political system, Saakashvili was a man with a very different and engaging vision of the future; a man of eloquence and intellect who captured the imagination of huge swaths of the population and enacted real and sweeping changes; a man whose modernising vision for his country was eventually damaged by the neocon project and involvement in an unwinnable war.

Switch Tony Blair's quiet, dogged Christianity with the occasionally fiery exuberance of the Caucasus male, then the two men seem like political twins. Both of them are obsessed with legacies, both of them care so deeply about politics that the passion seeps out of every pore, both of them were accused by their increasing number of political enemies of dictatorial impulses and an over-reliance on spin. And ultimately, both of them speak with such passion and belief, that even when you disagree with what they're saying, it's hard not to be impressed.

At the end of the interview, I ask him what is going on with the rabbit watch.

"Yeah, it's a bunny watch, so what?" he asks jokily, giving a high-pitched cackle. During their recent protests calling for his resignation, the opposition had unveiled a banner outside the presidential palace saying that Saakashvili was like a scared rabbit, and had thrown carrots – and at one point a live rabbit – over the railings.

"They had this banner in English, saying 'Saakashvili is a rabbit' – presumably for a foreign audience. I don't know what's so bad about this. Unless you keep rabbits at your apartment, they are pretty nice," he says, with a grin. The watch, which he's had for several years, is perhaps his way of showing that he can take the opposition's insults with good humour. The protesters blockaded the main street with makeshift cells, and picketed his office so that he had to work from another building across town for two months. But the mood in Tbilisi seems to have changed, with many ordinary Georgians bored of the fractured opposition, and unwilling to play into Russia's hands by helping to oust the president.

When Saakashvili was the toast of the West, touted as the model democrat and post-Soviet saviour, it was hard not to be struck by his obvious flaws. Now that he's regularly described as a volatile madman, it's striking to remember that despite all those flaws, and for all that he may well bear some responsibility for the war last year, he still offers an energetic, exciting vision for his country that is rare in the region.

"I will leave behind me a country that has modern democratic functioning institutions and modern infrastructure," he says. "It's like a five-year plan for the Soviet Union but for all the reverse reasons – to change everything that the Soviet Union spoiled here. People should get used to living in a merit-based, non-corrupt, democratic society."

That the opposition can so aggressively demand his resignation suggests that the country has already come a long way down this road. And despite everything, looking around the rest of his region, that's not a bad achievement. Whether he will ultimately be remembered for this, however, or instead for the disastrous war and subsequent loss of Georgian territory, remains to be seen.

Biography: Garlands and grenades - a life under pressure

21 December 1967 Born to a doctor father and a historian mother

1992 Graduates from the School of International Law at Kiev State University

1994 Receives LLM (Masters) from Columbia Law School and a Doctor of Law degree from the George Washington University

1995 Gets diploma from the International Institute of Human Rights in Strasbourg, then stands in Georgia's elections and wins a seat for the Union of Citizens of Georgia party

1997 Reportedly named Man of the Year by a panel of journalists and human rights activists in Georgia

2000 Becomes Minister of Justice under President Eduard Shevardnadze

2001 Resigns from government on 5 September and accuses the President of corruption. Later that year forms his own party, United Nation Movement

2002 Elected chairman of the Tbilisi Assembly

2003 Leads the Rose Revolution, a revolt against President Shevardnadze

2004 His party merges with United Democrats, becoming National Movement Democrats (NMD)

2005 Survives an assassination attempt against him and President Bush. The grenade fails to detonate

2007 Calls a state of emergency after street protests

2008 Wins second election, later orders attack on Tskhinvali, South Ossetia, prompting Russian invasion

2009 Pressure mounts against his rule, with mass street demonstrations

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Comments

Let's get one thing straight here, Shaun
[info]reiksares wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 01:50 am (UTC)
GEORGIA, led by your new chum "Misha", led an attack on a civilian population that your gutless pile of dross printed above has entirely whitewashed. Why haven't you mentioned it??

RUSSIA repelled that attack to save the lives of the population of South Ossetia, and having done so Russia withdrew.

There is every possibility that Misha The Murderer (The Tie-Eating Tyrant Of Tbilsi) will be hung out to dry by the Obama administration.

Meantime the Georgian Opposition is calling for his resignation and mounting street-protests against a man who is a CIA-imposed puppet.

Apart from all that, your article was reasonably accurate. And what nationality is he? You haven't mentioned his American passport. Some would see that as an obstacle to becoming the Premiere of another country, of course.
Re: Let's get one thing straight here, Shaun
[info]kartu2 wrote:
Wednesday, 26 August 2009 at 09:33 pm (UTC)
So, Saakashvili attacked civilian population, yet Russia managed to kill more civilians. (more than 200 vs 162 from ossetian side) How come, my dear?

Oh, and why did nearly entire Tskhinvali population LEAVE THE CITY ON 3RD OF AUGUST?
Selective Memory
[info]funk_le_monk wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:41 am (UTC)
Oh lordy. What kind of journalism is this? Saakashvili launched the attack that started the conflict and you let him claim that Medvedev was powerless to prevent the non-existent Russian offensive that exists only in his imagination without clarification? I find it hard to believe that the person who wrote this article wasn't aware of that fact. The omission is surely deliberate.
Re: Selective Memory
[info]kartu2 wrote:
Wednesday, 26 August 2009 at 09:35 pm (UTC)
WSJ had an article on that matter, mentioning Russia's minister of defence threatening western diplomats of Georgia invasion in April 2008.

And, oh yeah, Russia evacuated most of Tskhinvali civilians nearly one week before "fascist Saakashvili" even moved military forces towards the region. How come?
This guys a phoney.
[info]cunningtourist wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:52 am (UTC)
This war mongering Saakashvili worked in a Jewish American law firm in New York. Hang on, he IS Jewish American. Kudos to the first two commenters for exposing this crap propaganda journalism for what it is!
This is indeed a crappy article.
[info]topolcats wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 06:03 am (UTC)
The only question one can put about such distortions in this article is whether or not the journalist is a little limp wristed and fell in love with another so called charismatic limp wristed leader Misha. Ah yes I forgot the writer does sound English by name which means he must be in the pay of David Miliband, a known Russian hater of a Jewish background. Tusk Tusk the Independent should know better than putting out propaganda.
War Games
[info]fairmind wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 07:34 am (UTC)
Recently NATO countries conducted war games in Georgian soil hence Russia repeatedly asked not to do so because they claimed it would increase tension between two countries. Now Russia conducting similar war games in their soil, If Russia's war games means next step to invade Georgia, what was the intention of NATO's war games?
Lazy, unenquiring journalism
[info]feydel wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
This piece is a disgrace - sloppy, complaisant reporting that fails to scratch the surface of a dangerous man. Oh sorry, you talked about his watch. Misha was put in place by the CIA, the so-called 'Rose Revolution nothing more than a US-funded marketing stunt. Apart from anything else, he's a deluded wannabee - take for instance the big talk about Batumi becoming a 'new Barcelona'; has the writer BEEN to Batumi? I have, and believe me, it needs a great deal more than a few glitzy fantasies to transform it. More seriously, Misha is unstable; my Georgian friends simply say, with a shrug, that he's mad. And like many CIA puppets before him, it's gone to his head, he actually began to believe he's in charge - trouble is, since having given Russia the golden opportunity to administer a (justified) good kicking, he IS in charge, as the US has pretty much washed its hand of him. He's shown that he has no qualms about turning the heavily equipped (US provided) security forces on his own people, so opposing the loon is a dangerous business. Georgia is yet another Caucasian tragedy in the making, and the charming psychopath that is Saakashvili requires closer examination than this superficial dross. Send a real journalist next time.
Re: Lazy, unenquiring journalism
[info]luka1975 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:05 pm (UTC)
you are pathetic
Georgia in his fist, blood on his hands, a tie in his mouth
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 08:43 am (UTC)

Mikheil Saakashvili with his goons, protecting him from the love of his people.


The trademark Misha red tie.

Seems like Misha's oral fixation kicks in whenever he's lying his ass off. Here's Saaky lying about a Russian "military coup" (his own army mutinied a few days ago because Saaky & Obomber staged war games to get the army ready to invade Georgia's neighbors again).


When Saaky isn't munching his tie, invading his neighbors, assassinating his political rivals, closing down opposition media, pummeling protesters, and generally driving his country into the ground, he relaxes by throwing punches and phones:

Georgia President Saakashvili 'punched' prime minister in the face


Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili allegedly punched his prime minister in the face before throwing a telephone at him.

Mr Saakashvili is known for his hot temper, and at times strange antics. BBC footage of the Georgian president chewing his tie while speaking on the telephone during the country's war with Russia this August was widely circulated.

When did Saaky begin to talk in such flawless English as this shill would have us believe? Here's how Saaky really talks:
"They are creepingly (ph) widening their zone of occupation"
"Russia has broken all its promises continuous for the last several days"

And when did Saaky "survive an assassination attempt...the grenade fails to detonate?"

Grenade near Bush 'was inactive'


TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- A grenade reportedly found near the site where U.S. President George W. Bush made a speech in Tblisi was an inactive Soviet-era device, Georgian officials said Wednesday.

Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Guram Donadze described the device as a "non-combative" grenade used in military training and said it did not contain explosives.

The device was placed in the crowd about 100 feet from where Bush was speaking. It was not thrown, as was previously believed, Donadze said.

It never posed a danger to Bush and was apparently placed by someone who wanted to scare people in the crowd and attract media attention, Donadze said.

Whatever these shameless shills write and no matter how many media Wurlitzers play their crappy commissioned tunes, the world will always remember Misha as the oral-fixated fibbing boy-man addicted to mass murder:


Vano Shlamov/Agence France-Presse - Getty Images
Georgian forces fired rockets at South Ossetia in August.

Like many Yank-backed "color revolution" despots, Misha is not just a mass-murderer but also a Jew-hater. Here's what he did to Tskhinvali's Jewish quarter with his Israel-supplied armory:


The Georgian Napoleon
[info]babeouf wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 10:47 am (UTC)
Sashsquats is typical of leaders like Blair , conditioned to genuflect to power. Blair will go into history for Iraq and for destroying the British Labour Party. The party that was instrumental in his rise to power.
Personally I will long remember Sashsquats running squealing in terror at the report of a Russian plane over head. Perhaps Obama can still find some use for the conqueror of Georgia. Every major European politician will be delighted to hear of his political demise. Though doubtless their public statements will follow the script of the Walrus and the Carpenter. Expressions of deep sympathy followed by 'What's for lunch?'.
[info]luka1975 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 02:49 pm (UTC)
Great article.
it is 21st century and RUSSIA should FUCK OFF and take care of its own rotten territory and leave GEORGIA alone.
War was legitimate, because GEORGIA is entitled to get his terrotory back, even if you say that it was started by Georgia. Any other country would do the same.
Enough is enough. Putin is a fascist and he should be jailed for astrocities he made.
To professional Georgia-haters
[info]bastard_buster wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:02 pm (UTC)
The article is balanced and truthful, thanks to the author!!
For those posting anti-Georgian comments here: you are wasting your breath, or maybe the KGB funding. No thinking person in the world believes that little Georgia attacked permanent and historical aggressor such as Russia. Are you familiar with subject called HISTORY? Did you ever bother to actually read history of Russian-inspired and financed ethnic conflict in Georgia? Or, your chicken brains can't handle this much info? Let me guess, you are so blinded by hatred, it doesn't matter; you still gonna right you little dirty comments. I am sure that all reasonable and decent readers of this respectable newspaper understand what kind of agenda is hidden in those comments. Thanks for reading my comment!
Re: To professional Georgia-haters
[info]reiksares wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:25 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the factless rant. In fact President Sucko and his advisors now admit to having started the war in S Ossetia.

You speak for no-one. Sucko is a CIA puppet installed by the USA, and you clearly support the position of the American ultra-right - if indeed you're not actually paid by them (which seems likely).
Re: To professional Georgia-haters
[info]08001 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 06:30 pm (UTC)
@bastard buster - Its good to see someone else getting tired of seeing Russian nationalists, anti-semites and knee-jerk anti-US/NWO whack-jobs bombarding every article about Georgia with their ignorant nonsense.

Also thanks to Shaun Walker for his recent excellent, fair-minded, informative articles on Georgia.
[info]luka1975 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:03 pm (UTC)
Most of the negative comments about this artilce are written by angry russians and russian link-ed neofascists...

I want all of them to understand one simple thing. Georgia is a very small country, historically important, culturally rich and deserves the right to remain, develop and flourish as an independent country within its own territotoires.. Instead over the last 20 years Russia has systemically was accomplishing to conquer parts of Georgia - first of all Abkhazia and they since they could also strir up a shit in Samachablo (which is inccorectly called south ossetia) they did that too. Russian led wars in early 1990s ethnically cleansed abkhazia from Georgians, overthrowed patriotic government and installed their agent Eduard Shevardnadze to govern Georgia who further allowed Russian interests to advance in Georgia.

Sort of similar situation is in Georgia now, Russia is trying to depose legitimate Georgian Governement to install their puppets and agents ( do you wonder who georgian political opposition are? ). Russia can't imagine to exist without having their vacations in Sukhumi or Pitsunda or Gagra, thats why their porject to cleanse abkhazia from georgians and own it was so highly coveted. Pretty soon, abkhazians will become russian slaves and they will find themsleves in horrible situation making them wish never separted from Georgians.

I will say this, ultimate future will be fair. Even strongest empires haven't lasted, Russian empire will fall down, These terrotories will never disappear, putin will die eventually, generations will change, eventually historical fairness will be restored, Georgia will remain Georgia, and all these people - Georgians, abkhazians, ossetians adn many olthers who live there will coexist and live peacefully like they did many years ago. Northern caucasian people will be freed up from RUssian empire as well.
So, all neo-russian-fascists, eat your hearts, your "victory" is temporary like Hitler's wins.
[info]reiksares wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 03:33 pm (UTC)
>> do you wonder who georgian political opposition are? <<

No, I *know* who the Georgian political opposition are. They represent the GEORGIAN PEOPLE and not the yankee cock-sucking neocon trash on whose behalf your posting has been made.

The Georgian political opposition include PATRIOTS like Nino Burjaladze. She was previously one of your nut-job Sucko's ministers, but she resigned in horror when she saw that he was actually an American-salaried Nazi maniac.

Abkhazians aren't Georgians, never were Georgians, and never will be Georgians. Your thug Government treated them so badly that they threw you out, and never want you back.

Who would want to be citizens in a country that LAUNCHES ROCKET ATTACKS ON ITS OWN PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT??????????? From AMERICAN rocket-launchers, with AMERICANS directing the attacks, with the soldiers paid by AMERICA, and with the money sent from AMERICA?

>> russian link-ed neofascists... <<

Empty baseless crap. It's YOU that's the fascist... you and your YANKEE NAZI BACKERS like George Bush, John Bolton, and John-Bomb McCain. Since when was this trio of scum any kind of "Georgian". You are full of crap about Russia's influence in Georgia, liar - but you fail to mention America using Georgia as a puppet proxy state. Or perhaps you can explain some other way in which the main road from the airport to Tbilisi became named "George W Bush Boulevard"????
(no subject) - [info]luka1975 - Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC) Expand
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Great Article about a strong person.
[info]aaron_daley wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 04:36 pm (UTC)
God bless Mikheil Saakashvili.
On the Georgian debate
[info]babeouf wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 05:02 pm (UTC)
Georgi's war with Russia ,through its involvement with NATO members, opened the prospect of a large scale war with Russia. No European leader or American President is going to fight such a war for Georgia. Not even if the Russians are going to turn cannibal and eat every Georgian. Such a war would become nuclear within hours. Europe's destruction would be total. This time there would be no recovery.I don't know what the Republican politicians told the war criminal sahsquats but that is the truth. Russia cannot dismember the rest of Georgia without paying a heavy price(unless sashsquats launches another war) but that price will not involve a military confrontation. In another war with Russia Georgia will stand alone. Georgian politicians would be well advised to act accordingly.
Re: On the Georgian debate
[info]luka1975 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 05:15 pm (UTC)
what an idiotic opinion... So if we go by your logic, then North Korea is the most powerful country because it is threatening US and the world with nuclear war...

Nobody is scared of Russia's nuclear power. RUssia is rabbid, but not that stupid to commit suicide. US will wipe out Russia as well if Russia tries to use nuclear weapon.. So this arugument is rather stupid.

As I said It is 21st century, and the world has better tools to deal with beligerant regimens like Russia's or north Korea. it is called ISOLATION. total ISOLATION.. if RUSSIA will play uncivilized belicose idiot role, it will go back to condition where former USSR was and no russians will be allowed abroad.. now, trust me, when that happens, russians themsleves, who now know the taste of sophisticated western lifestyle, will themselves rush to Putin and hang him with his balls on a ceiling fixture.
Luka1975
[info]babeouf wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 05:29 pm (UTC)
Trust you , you should be in a museum. There are 3000 German companies with offices in Russia. There are French companies doing deals with the Russian defense industry(The scale of Thales involvement took me by surprise). Italian companies are involved in leasing and servicing the Sukhoi 100 passenger jet. The involvement of European business in Russia grows every week. Your reaction to the truth of Georgia's position is to call for the isolation of Russia. You want to extend your Georgian fantasy to include Capitalist Europe. Let me see, the governments of Europe can make a Euro or stand by Georgia in its hour of need. They will make a principled stand on the principle of profit.
Re: Luka1975
[info]luka1975 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 06:08 pm (UTC)
that was not my point... excuse you, my point was towards nuclear war threat.. West is not gonna be blackmailed by Idiotic beligenrant PUTIN's RUSSIA.
Rest of the shit you say, it is well known to everybody. Georgia might be crushed for other interests (historically always been crushed because of that), but what Europe should beware is that Russia might crawl on top of their head as well and enslave them . Little example of that was how Russia made sure that East Europe was freezing in winter... Russian politicians are the most evil on the earth, they will do anything even Hitler couldn't think to advance their interests...balance should be kept in check , and that's what I hope that West is realizing this extremely well not to allow Russia to dictate its own imperliastic aspirations
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Re: Luka1975 - [info]babeouf - Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 09:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Saakashvili and selective memories
[info]dashamonrovia wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 08:16 pm (UTC)
Are you people for real? Instead of meaningful comments on a lively, well-balanced article, there is this infantile drivel where using swear words seem to be seen as being somehow one-upmanship. How old are you morons? Tell me, where does the author ever side with Saakashvili or with Russia? Can you guys, (and you must be guys given the foul, inarticulate and illiterate use of language that you somehow think makes you sound clever) even read between the lines? The author of the article is careful to balance what he knows of recent history between Saakashvili the hero and the man that he is critical of from time to time. How many of you toads are fully paid to shout for either side? You know what? Go wash your mouths out with soap and water. In the meantime Mr Walker, please continue to write illuminating, even handed articles for those who want to really make up their own minds.
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 09:28 pm (UTC)
I would partly agree with dashmonrovia, but I get an impression that the author is like a bit afraid to blame Saakashvili directly and he (author) prefer readers to read betveen the lines (so to say). Ofcourse it is clear for everybody that Georgian President is unstable psychologically (like his fan luka1975) and so he decided in a boyish bravado to subdue South Ossetians with military force being delusioned that USA would come to his resque in case Russia fights back - to some extend it worked - he is not yet hanged by his balls so far. Russians (I am Russian myself) decided to be reasonable. I am not sure he will get away with the same stant for the second time if he try it again...Its a pity that in this discussion opinion of Ossetian and Abhazian peoples are not taken into account - as if they don't exist and only georgians, russians, americans play the game.In my opinion it is desire of these 2 peoples to be independent should matter most of all, not geopolitical interests of great powers. Ossetians and Abhazians have already expressed their opinion on referendums. Next month we will celebrate the first year of independence of those souvereign states. I hope we all should congratulate them and to provide as much assistance as possible for new independent states of S.Ossetia and Abhazia. Thank you for reading.
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]08001 - Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 09:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]rex123 - Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 11:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]pareto77 - Monday, 6 July 2009 at 10:12 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]08001 - Monday, 6 July 2009 at 11:16 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]pareto77 - Monday, 6 July 2009 at 10:16 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Saakashvili and selective memories - [info]kartu2 - Wednesday, 26 August 2009 at 09:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Next please
[info]alanski wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 09:52 pm (UTC)
Who pays Mishas salary and also the rest of his government. USA of course the excuse being that it takes away the temptation of corruption. Arf arf!
Re: Next please
[info]nick_87 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 09:06 am (UTC)
who pais separatists governments in Abkhazia, S. Ossetia? Who pays Hammas? Who paid Cuban government in 1950s?

the worst part of this story is that Russians spend money on shaking and provoking worlds peace and security with money received from EU on gas and oil.
Lies - [info]kartu2 - Wednesday, 26 August 2009 at 09:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Nick
[info]nick_87 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 08:57 am (UTC)
don't you Russian f*ckers have anything else but posting this crap all over the internet?
Georgia hasn't started anything, the war for Northern regions of Georgia (Abkhazia and S. Ossetia) started at the beginning of 90s, when russians invaded Georgian territory. 2008 was only conclusion of the process that started 15 years ago.

By claiming Georgian troops have killed 2000 civilians in Ossetia, is similar to the claim that Black is White and White is black. The world is not as brainwashed as vast majority of russian population. The ethnical cleansings have taken place and that happened against Georgian population. Their houses were burned, old men and women were tortured. how can you bloody bastards still hope you can get away with it?

Maybe Misha hasn't done all things right, and only Georgian citizens are allowed to criticize him, but russians better think of your own puppet, who calls himself a president and can't even make important decisions. country with decreasing population, with absolutely no economy, increasing number of Alcoholics and prostitutes. demolished army who barely fought in southern borders.

modern russia, is very much like nazi Germany of 1920s. country's very poor, have lost cold war, and have ambitions to be counted for something... you can dreem on becoming superpower again, but frankly, that will remain a dream for very long time.

I liked the article. the more truth you know about russian - georgian war, the hard it becomes NOT to blame russia.
Re: Nick
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 10:21 am (UTC)
Dear Nick. thank you very much for your response to this artickle.It is not we who are postering about Saakashvili's starting war - it is western press that 100% agree with that and independent witnesses to the conflict - Ossetians themselves(also read report of ex. OSCE misssion head). Naturally we were not present on the spot as well as you was not there in Tshinval. Do not be so upset. But as for the fact that 1 mln. of ethnic Georgians enjoy life in Russia (and many of them are those migrated from Abhazia not to Georgia but to Russia) - those are facts known to all Russians - Georgian restorant is next to my home - and there are every day a lot of Georgians - they feel just fine, their kids go to our schools even if they have no citisenship - that is also smth. I know for sure couse my daughter is a schoolgirl and they have 2 georgian kids in their class. Also read newsletter of Georgian embassy in Moscow - now it is not published, but issues from before the war are in internet. Georgian population shrinked nearly 20% since 1991 due to migration mainly - so your pointing on dicreasing population of Russia is strange here - also this Russian decrease is due to birth rate which is the same as in EU (where population is also decreasing - only immigration keeps it stable - the same as in Russia by the way - there are estimated 10 000 000 migrant workers from abroad here (mainly from ex Soviet republics including Georgia and many from China). Also if our army is so "demolished" as you say - there is no need to be afraid of Russian "agression" to other lands, right? - So, whty are you so unhappy that you effectively called me one of "Russian f*ckers" - it is quotation from your post....Why is that only Georgian citizens are aloud to critisise Misha? - Aloud by whom?...Very strange point of view....You also write that Russia is a country with "absolutely no economy" - what then it would be possible to say about Georgia which has gross domestic product PER CAPITA 3 times less then the Russian one! Also 20% of Georgians work in Russia exactly because there is no adequate economy in Georgia. The same are figures about poorty - Russia is not reach, but average Georgian is 3 times poorer then average Russian- see information by IMF, UN. Russia do not dream to become superpower again - those are your paranoic fears. Russia dismantled communism itself (some Russians sacrificed their lifes throwing themselves under KGB tanks back in 19-20 August 1991 in Moscow) and it gave opportunity to many nations of the world to get independance - including Georgia by the way (by the way the founding FATHERS of Soviet Empire were Georgians - STALIN. BERIA, ORDJONIKIDZE - so as far as your referals to Nazi Germany - think better whom to point.)...Believe me in 10 years S.Ossetia and Abhazia will be recognised as independent states by majority of countries including EU and USA, they will be members of UN and enjoy free and prosperous future...
so much hate
[info]pareto77 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 09:13 am (UTC)
Russian haters posting here, i want to inform you, that your hatfull coments just make neutral people feel more simpatetic with Georgia!




Re: so much hate
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 10:46 am (UTC)
pareto, where is there hate in my posts? Are you natural English speaker?- can't you distinguish who is Russian and who is Brit? Or you want to say that nick and luka are not hateful? - they are exactly hateful and they are georgia supporters. So I think your post is biased. Please, be reasonable.
[info]vplyv wrote:
Friday, 14 August 2009 at 07:05 am (UTC)
You should write now Kyiv State University, this is the official name for the university and the city too.

All the evidences are nice.ly gathered on http://Kyiv.Of-Cour.se

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