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Six drugs service scientists may resign over sacking of chairman

Growing fury at 'disgraceful' decision that undermines relations between politicians and scientists

By Danny Brierley

Nutt: His sacking could cause 'meltdown' of drugs advisory council

Nutt: His sacking could cause 'meltdown' of drugs advisory council

Leading members of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) are expected to resign over the sacking of its chairman, leaving the service in disarray, one of its leading scientists has warned.

Dr Les King, a respected chemist and former head of the Drugs Intelligence Unit in the Forensic Science Service, said that anger over the "disgraceful" decision by the Home Secretary, Alan Johnson, to remove Professor David Nutt could lead to a meltdown in the 40-year-old organisation.

He claimed that as many as six of its scientists will resign from the independent organisation, putting further pressure on the Government over its handling of the affair. Dr King cautioned that the Government's whole drugs programme could be at risk.

Fuelling the sense of anger in the scientific community over the sacking, Lord Drayson, the Science minister, expressed concern that he had not been informed of the decision.

Professor Nutt said last night that his own children may have tried drugs. "I'm sure my children have tried drugs. In fact, some have told me they have," he told The Mail on Sunday.

The row has wider ramifications for the relationship between politicians and scientists, many of whom are concerned at Mr Johnson's reaction to Professor Nutt's comments. Dr King said: "Academics, medics and others are going to ask themselves if they want to serve on these agencies without payment, on their own time and expense, when the advice that they produce is routinely ignored."

To the anger of scientists, Mr Johnson accused Professor Nutt of "lobbying for a change in policy".

Professor Nutt's dismissal, a first for a chairman of the ACMD, came days after he expressed dismay at the Prime Minister's insistence that cannabis remain a class B drug, and nine months after he said that there was little difference in the dangers of horse riding and taking ecstasy.

Dr King added: "What we say is objective and evidence-based. Sometimes people do not want to hear that. The Government has a statutory obligation to consult the council before it makes any changes to the classification of drugs – the Misuse of Drugs Act is clear about that. If significant figures resign, it cannot function any more, and without a change to the Act of Parliament the Government cannot make any changes." Members of the council, which meets twice a year, are due to gather again on 10 November, when discussions will be dominated by Professor Nutt's sacking. But the resignations are likely to occur sooner, said Dr King.

Following the sacking, there are now 30 members of the council, fewer than half of whom are scientists. The Home Office has refused to comment on the possibility of resignations, but Lord Drayson told followers of his Twitter account that he was "looking into" the sacking after hearing the news while in Japan. The minister, who is likely to have to deal with the anger of scientists, later posted a message saying he would be "asking why I wasn't informed".

The shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, has backed Professor Nutt's sacking. Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrats' home affairs spokesman, said: "The sacking was utterly disgraceful and a serious mistake. It has much wider implications, not just for the ACMD but for any independent scientific advisory service trying to give a sensible assessment of evidence to policy-makers. It is absolutely essential that the Government takes impartial, scientific advice. You cannot question David Nutt's credentials; if anyone knows the difference between facts and opinions, it is him."

Rudi Fortson, a leading criminal barrister and author who specialises in drug cases, said: "If the scientists were to resign en masse a vacuum would be left and that would be a matter of some concern." In an open letter to Mr Johnson, Professor Peter Tyrer, the head of the Centre for Mental Health and editor of the British Journal of Psychiatry, said Professor Nutt's scientific credentials were "impeccable".

Richard Garside, the director of the Centre for Crime and Justice at King's College London, accused Mr Johnson of undermining scientific research. He said: "I'm shocked and dismayed that [he] appears to believe that political calculation trumps honest and informed scientific opinion."

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Don't confuse me with the facts...
[info]victhebrit wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 12:27 am (UTC)
Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that this ignorance of expert advice is any way a surprise. The rejection of the advice before the debacle in Iraq was the same. Ministers firming up their case for their overseas adventures by sexing up the worst (possible) scenario and ignoring the best (probable) facts.
Nutt should go!
[info]bon003 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:28 am (UTC)
I have a psychiatric illness and I have been in hospital three times and once I met a young man who was in because of cannabis. He was very frail and poorly. LSD is also a very dangerous drug and I have heard of people becoming ill after only one try. Make no mistake mental illness is a very hard and painful slog
and nobody should be allowed to risk it. Perhaps they should let some patients speak out instead of letting these - very well paid - people pontificate. Alan Johnson is right!
Re: Nutt should go!
[info]llienomot wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:52 am (UTC)
Recovering from a badly broken leg is a very hard and painful slog. Should we ban skiing?
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]zugzwang43 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]drstark - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:01 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]nullius123 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]zugzwang43 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]lkdamo - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]bon003 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 04:00 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]moresomaplease - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]frebastulous - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]moresomaplease - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]frebastulous - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]bon003 - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]deimosp - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]moresomaplease - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:35 am (UTC) Expand
bono003 - [info]zugzwang43 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nutt should go! - [info]invariablefocus - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:15 am (UTC) Expand
Fire all the scientist until you are only advised by Alcohol Lobbyists...
[info]drstark wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:53 am (UTC)
Marijuana is far less harmful to both the user and society than alcohol. That is a fact. You can fire scientist for saying the world is round, when the politicians claim it is flat, but the truth will someday prevail.
Inconvenient truth
[info]ash1168 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:21 am (UTC)
The government's denial of the facts about less harmful drugs shows us how patently unqualified they are to govern. We really do deserve better than this. Their gamble is that there is sufficient ignorance about the truth re: cannabis vs. alcohol, that the people won't suss, and therefore can keep an outcry at bay. The only consideration here is maintaining the electorate, and hence power. For those that know the truth about cannabis, their stance is such a revealing wake up call of what a shitty, shitty, diarhoea-laced governemnt we have.
Re: Inconvenient truth
[info]richard_hode wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:11 am (UTC)
And that also an appropriate description of the United States' government. Well said!
Re: Inconvenient truth - [info]moresomaplease - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Inconvenient truth - [info]zugzwang43 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:05 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]knowles2 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:37 am (UTC)
I think it a disgrace that Johnson sack someone who just happen to disagree with him. If Gordon had any balls he should sack Johnson an rehire the Mr Notts.

It a shame someone get sack just for telling the truth.

Drugs policy should be formed by what works an what does not work, base scientific analysis.
It clear that the crack an zero tolerance approach has not work, in fact looking at the data it may of made the problem worst.

As for whether cannabis cause perminent harm, not sure, never done me harm or any of my friends, an some of them smoke it everyday. What we need is more research an more studies an not more scare stories an poorly thought policies which are more aim a appeasing the public than sorting the problem.
freedom
[info]thomasth wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:58 am (UTC)
Does not anyone understand anymore that the chemical freedom of your own head = freedom?!?
No change
[info]loftwork wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:02 am (UTC)
This decision puts the government's attitude to science on the same footing as that of the Papal Inquisition in 1633 when it tried Galileo for the heresy of stating that the earth moved around the sun. Indeed, Nutt's sin is heresy. not inaccuracy.

However Chris Grayling does Tories no favour by conspicuously lining up with Alan Johnson's flat earth society. Most voters are considering Tory because they want a change, not more tabloid claptrap. An urgent rethink is required on both sides of the House.

Re: No change
[info]zugzwang43 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:30 pm (UTC)


Indeed loftwork,the Tories are in complete agreement, they would have done exactly the same. The Liberals are rather more pragmatic, so will get my vote.
Sense and sensibility
[info]agynes wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 04:54 am (UTC)
Thank goodness there is still an objective view left assine
Six drugs service scientists may resign ...
[info]tufsoft wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 06:34 am (UTC)
Or then again, they may not.
tufsoft
[info]zugzwang43 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:35 pm (UTC)


I believe Dr. Les King has done so..
Gordon does not want to hear that, kindly leave the stage.
[info]marchmont wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
It was only to be expected that the UK's chief drugs adviser was fired by scientific Luddite Alan Johnson. He had clashed in the past with the now disgraced home secretary Jacqui Smith when she reclassified cannabis, rightly saying she had 'distorted and devalued the relevant medical and scientific research. However, his days were numbered when he supported the suggestion of many international medical bodies that all drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, should be ranked by a 'harm' index - with drinking coming fifth behind cocaine, heroin, barbiturates, and methadone. The Dear Leader, Gordon Brown, has frequently made completely irrational statements about cannabis being 'lethal' and must never, ever, be told something he does not want to hear.
Who's next? The Tories muzzle the ONS?
[info]chrisclarkgold wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:10 am (UTC)
It was most disappointing that shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, lined up with GB, sorry, Alan Johnson, to support this resignation request. By now he has probably read the acres of complaints and shortly no doubt will come back and recant.

In the meantime, have we seen an early sign of David Cameron's Conservatives seeking to control both conclusions and opinion from its independent advisory bodies? And will the month after the next election, will a suddenly depleted Office of National Statistics announce GDP is at 5%?
Labour has never been concerned about facts and truth
[info]deimosp wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:29 am (UTC)
It has long been Labour's ethic to dismiss and discard people who say things they disagree. And when that is informed or knowledgeable opinion it becomes a threat so the people have to go. It is daft that a politician with no background in any specific discipline can suddenly think he knows better than a professional qualified person who is held in high regard be his/her peers. Sort of sums up our politicians these days.

And in this specific case, of course Cannabis in all forms carries a risk. However, that risk can be quantified by measured data (incidences and severity of problems in relation to use). The point of a classification system is to put broad summaries on that measured risk. Driving a car is dangerous, walking on the pavement is dangerous, living is always fatal. We need to look at the risks of serious outcomes in relation to an activity. Classing everything as very dangerous completely defeats the point of a grading system. The risks are measurable and quantifiable and do not need personal interpretation by politicians inexperienced in the field. One can say that 3*7=21; politicians might not like this (e.g. when Gordon starts calculating the National Debt he prefers things like 8bn+22bn=2bn) but the scientific process has been proved useful on numerous occasions and forms a good basis for many things.
Truth Suppression
[info]moresomaplease wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC)
More truth suppression from the Ministry of BS!

The economy is getting better, oh wait a minute its not.
Co2 is killing the planet (but don't mention the Medieval Warm Period or Solar flare cycles)
AlQuida is a threat, (but don't mention that Osama Bin Laden is a CIA asset)
Osama Bin Laden is responsible for 911 (but is not on the FBI's most wanted list, please see for your self)

All Drugs are bad (except the ones that are socially acceptable that we tax to death)
[info]20_michael_20 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 10:25 am (UTC)
Mr. Johnson should be considering HIS position..........he is a disgrace..........he is unable to differentiate between facts and fantasy.........
[info]mr_scummy wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC)

Perhaps some of these scientists could stand as MPs? We could do with more people with genuine scientific expertise and familiarity with making evidence-based decisions in Parliament, to counterbalance the inane decisions being taken by career politicians, ex-lawyers, and other technical illiterates currently attempting to run the country.
Manufacturing discent
[info]giligamesh wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:03 am (UTC)
I was at a lecture by noam Chomsky yesterday, and he mapped out a policy on drugs that the USA has followed for 40 years in order to control the population, thus manufacturing discent and criminalizing whole swathes of working class and disadvantaged peoples. That's why the USA has such a huge prison population. To follow this policy lead is wrong but Gordon has done it for a reason. It could be because Copenhagen is around the corner and it would be better for Gordon if honest discenting scientists were suitably silenced! it's gordons way sadly to get rid of any threats to him, that's why he's surrounded by imbeciles.
Just a thought.
Professor Nutt
[info]christiantay wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC)
The sacking of Professor Nutt was a bad day for science and rational debate. How dare Gordon Brown dabble in a medical issue? The last time I checked he was a politician, not a psychiatrist.
Re: Professor Nutt
[info]lsi_92 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:24 pm (UTC)
Actually, Gordon Brown is a historian, by qualification.

Just give thanks he's not running the economy, just imagine what might happen then!

Oh, wait..
whatever makes u happy
[info]hathaway75 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:21 am (UTC)
As a recovering addict all I can say , and speak for is the prescription painkillers my Dr. gave to me for years on end. Not his fault- mine. I seaked them and used them to cover up my extremely high anxiety issues. After years of being in a methedone clinic, which was the worste thing I could have evr done I am finally free of the opiates that were ruling my existance. Drugs. lokk at this country and where it is going, I would turn to them to. Although I do believe canibus should be legal for medical reasons, and that alchohal is one of the worste drugs out there, and that tons of research has been shown on which drugs are truefully harming and which are not, this gov. will never change. They are too tied in with the war on drugs which makes them way to much money, and with all the corrupt police, drug agents and other law inforcement it will never happen.

In fact my firm belief is nothing good in this country will happern until we all get off our bums and let our godd ole gov. know we are sick and tired of the way things are being run. Until then nothing will change. More prisons wil be built for profit. It does not seem to phase most that 12 percent of our population is African American, yet half of that pop. makes up the prison sydtem. Also that 60n percent of black males in urban areas do not graduate from highschool. So lets keep making those drug laws tougher,and lets get those child molesters out as fast as possible.

Just look at Katrina, our Gov. does not give a crap about you or any middle class family out there. I am awhite female who spends her time getting as much education as possible and certificates so that someday I make the difference we all hope for, but truely have given up on.
Time to change told lies for facts
[info]gaswork wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 11:44 am (UTC)
I would like to personally thanks Mr. Nutt what he was up against is a very thick wall of ignorance The UK has been well and truly conned - lied to in the most blatant show of arrogance and disregard for its citizens ever witnessed as stated his scientific credentials are "impeccable and so are many more great scientists that goes against this sort of dictatorship the response ability of these few men that try to get the truth out weather you agree with them or not the science speaks for its self good news for some and bad news for some at the end of it all it’s the truth unless its proven otherwise as far as I can see it’s a first step towards honesty which has never been any government’s strong point the fact that these governments want us to believe in farther Christmas and not to question the leaders of New Labour and the likes towards hypocrisy
Policy vs science
[info]johnsawyercjs wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 12:10 pm (UTC)
Johnson says: "I cannot have public confusion between scientific advice and policy..."

Then why not make policy match the scientific advice?
Re: Policy vs science
[info]zugzwang43 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC)


Better still don't ask for advice in the first place, since the politicians always know better anyway, they know everything, from the value of a bath plug, and manure.
REEFERMADNESS.
[info]c777 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 12:16 pm (UTC)
Its the attitude of the dumbed down masses towards cannabis.
For example the myth that cannabis causes hallucination ,er no it does not.
The myth that cannabis causes psychosis ,er no it does not.
The reason cannabis first became illegal in the united states was for an excuse for the police to enter the homes of the poor imigrant classes who preferred it to booze,which is actually a poison.
It is a classic example of if you tell a lie dogedly and long enough it will become accepted as the truth.
ps ,some people go mad as an allergic reaction to eating nuts do they not.
Ban nuts, they are evil, ban them now !

pps alchohol kills more in one week than all illegal drugs put together in a whole year ,(this is true).
Find alternative tax revenues - reduce alcoholism
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 12:43 pm (UTC)

The govs have taken steps to reduce the public reliance on tobacco products and their tax revenues.
Now its time to do the same with low cost alcohol. Obviously, keep the ban and strict classification on drugs.
Choice
[info]c777 wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:09 pm (UTC)
I see points here about scientific evidence.
I t is not about scientific evidence it is about freedom of choice for the individual.
In my ealier post I pointed out the danger of alchohol.
But most of these subsatnces are only dangerous when taken to excess.
I enjoy a beer or a glass of wine but by no means am I an alchoholic.
I smoke a few roll ups a day.
I have no tobacco related health problems.
It is the irresponsible miNority who are being used as an excuse for control of the responsible majority.
Beware any form of control because that is all it boils down to ,CONTROL.
Re: Choice
[info]tominlondon wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
"I smoke a few roll ups a day.
I have no tobacco related health problems."

Are you sure?
Re: Choice - [info]c777 - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 01:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Choice - [info]corporeal_v001 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 06:18 pm (UTC) Expand
I'm against it
[info]tominlondon wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
I'm totally against the legalisation or downgrading of cannabis. I can't remember why.
Re: I'm against it
[info]sahafi wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:09 pm (UTC)
I can't help but wonder how much the drug trafficking/producing mafia has invested in the current "drugs-better-than-alcohol" campaign. First of all, the good scientist Dr. Nutt should read up on sociology in addition to his own science. The problem with saying that weed and ecstasy are less harmful than alcohol is about creating a sort of tolerance towards illegal drugs among the population. We all know that alcohol can be very harmful but it's a part of our culture and we are used to it. We do, therefore, tend to overlook its dangers. So, when a scientist says that certain drugs are less dangerous, most people will hear something like "NOT DANGEROUS at all". This especially concerns young people. By becoming more relaxed about "light" drugs, they also become much more open towards heavy drugs such as heroin. It's a very good sales strategy for the mafia. The same goes for the "legalize" debate.
Secondly, when people take ecstasy and LSD, how do they know for sure what's inside? A drug lab is not a pharmacy, drug producers tend to dilute drugs with all kinds of nasty substances such as crushed light bulbs, for example. And how do we know what the effects of these "light" drugs are going to be on the genetic health of the population"?
Here's a few points to drive home - [info]maxmeier13 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I'm against it - [info]zugzwang43 - Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 03:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Cannabis hysteria is rooted in US racism
[info]luciaq wrote:
Sunday, 1 November 2009 at 02:43 pm (UTC)
The plant has been used for many millennia and spread itself around the world. It is a benign herb with many important pharmacological benefits. Outlawing the product came early in the 20th Century as a form of US racism against Mexicans. The good doctor has research and facts to back up his claims yet the general attitude of ignorance and stupidity is spread by politicians. May I recommend a very timely book and NPR documentary. The Botany of Desire, a truly informative work on the evolution of plants:
http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire/ It really is distressing that so many will not think. To those who have psychotic episodes, you should stay well clear of sugar and alcohol. Blaming cannabis tends to avoid the root triggers of your problems.
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