Exposed: MI5's secret deals in Camp X-ray
How MI5 attempted to recruit prison camp inmates
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Independent Minds
MI5 secretly tried to hire British men held in Guantanamo Bay and other US prison camps by promising to protect them from their American captors and help secure their return home to the United Kingdom, The Independent has learnt.
One of the men, Richard Belmar, was told he would be paid "well" for his services if he was willing to work undercover for MI5. A second detainee, Bisher Al Rawi, was told that if he agreed to work for the security service he would be "freed within months".
Three other detainees were threatened with rendition and harsh detention regimes if they did not co-operate with their British and American interrogators.
But MI5 failed to honour the promises made by its agents, a former agent has told The Independent.
The source, who is close to the MI5 officers who conducted the interviews, has confirmed that "assurances" had been given to the British men while they were held in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. But he said that senior officers in London had cleared the actions of its own officers but later reneged on the promises. This is backed up by sworn testimony lodged in the High Court from the former detainees.
"[The agents] fear they will be hung out to dry. This is not the first time that field agents have been made to carry the can even when there is a paper trail all the way to the top authorising the action and conduct of the agents," said the source.
The clandestine recruitment operation was being pursued at the same time that the British Government was supporting American claims that those held at the notorious US naval base represented a serious threat to world security.
Edward Davey, the Liberal Democrats' spokesman on foreign affairs, said: "These allegations show the extent of MI5's involvement with those people who were illegally abducted and held in Guantanamo Bay. It's increasingly clear that Britain must have known much more about American practices at Guantanamo Bay, including water-boarding, than they are prepared to admit."
According to papers before the High Court two MI5 officers, known as "Andrew and Officer B" tried to recruit Mr Belmar while he was held by the Americans in Pakistan in 2002.
He was told that he would have to attend training courses at Thames House, the headquarters of MI5 in London. And in April 2002 "Andrew and officer B" informed Mr Belmar that he would be returning to England in seven days' time. Mr Belmar says on hearing this news he was "extremely relieved and started counting down the days". But on the day of his "releases" he was handed over to US military officers and later transferred to Guantanamo Bay.
Bisher Al Rawi claims that MI5 officers visited him at the US naval base in Cuba to offer him a job working for the security services after his release.
The two officers, who called themselves "Martin and Matt", told him they had "specifically come to see you". The court case alleges: "Mr Al Rawi's shackles and handcuffs were completely removed during this meeting and Martin and Matt brought Mr Al Rawi a McDonald's meal. They asked Mr Al Rawi a number of questions, showed him photographs of individuals they were interested in, and had a lengthy discussion with him. During the meeting a request was made by the men to Mr Al Rawi that he would work for the security services upon being released. They promised that if he agreed he would be released within a few months. Mr Al Rawi agreed to these terms."
The court papers allege that another man, Omar Deghayes, was approached by MI5 while he was detained in Afghanistan in the summer of 2002. The agent, who gave his name as "Andrew", assured Mr Deghayes that if "he helped him and the United States interrogators he would go back home". On the basis of Andrew's assurance, Mr Deghayes agreed to answer Andrew's questions, it is claimed. Similar claims over British assurances are made by Moazzam Begg, the former Guantanamo inmate who was released in 2005.
All five men, and two other former Guantanamo detainees, are seeking compensation from the Foreign Office, the Home Office, MI5 and MI6 and the Attorney General.
A spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said that the Government could not comment on on-going legal proceedings.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?d
If our security services have to fight this dirty war they need to use all available techniques, within the law, to prevent attacks on the British homeland and on British people.
The Security Services do a marvellous job and like the Royal family cannot answer back. These allegations by ex-detainees are evidence in a legal attempt to receive compensation and should be seen as such. Speculation about interviews with Guantanamo detaineees and alleged conversations are not proper evidence and should be seen in the proper perspective. This whole trial has the nasty smell of legal expenses and the Human Rights gravy train. Generally speaking, if people 'cross the radar' of the Security Services, it is because the are 'people of interest'. It is right and proper that such people are interviewed and interrogated. To do otherwise would be a gross dereliction of duty.
Can we please remember this and view this with the proper perspective.
I love my country no less than you do, but as hard as it might be for you to accept, the truth is that it has been under the control of some very evil, very manipulative, and very cunning people (probably numbering less than 150 or 200 persons all told) for most of the 20th century. They have magnified their efforts since the start of the first Thatcher government.
Both 9-11 and 7/7 were "Inside Jobs." There were no Arab Hijackers commandeering airliners over American Airspace and then piloting them with pin-point accuracy into the WTC Twin Towers, and then the Pentagon. A 3rd building at the WTC complex -- Building 7 -- collapsed in exactly the same way as the twin towers, but several hours later. No aircraft struck Building 7 yet it still collapsed and at free-fall speed, in a symmetrical fashion, onto its own footprint: a text-book controlled demolition (as were the North & South towers).
The official account states that a hijacked airliner was crashed, kamikaze like, into the Pentagon. Strange that the wreckage did not resemble a plane of the size mentioned! Indeed, the hole made in the Pentagon structure was so small, it could only have been made by a missile (with a very small warhead) or a small aircraft, possibly an airforce jet fighter. The Pentagon's exterior failed to show any evidence of being hit by the very large wings of a Boeing 777 sized aircraft; ditto the engines, which are constructed of hardened alloys and therefore would have caused immense structural damage had such a plane truly been the one used in the attack.
The most ridiculous & damning piece of evidence shown to the public is the passport of Mohammed Atta, which was alleged to have been found near the fiery rubble of the WTC towers (at Ground Zero). There it was, in all its pristine glory, a passport that had somehow survived the fireball of the plane strike intact before floating around in the air for almost 1 hour waiting for both towers to collapse & the dust settle, before deciding to gently fall to earth to be picked up by a government employee. It was then displayed by a Washington spokesman on CNN. You couldn't make up this dumb-ass Hollywood stuff if you tried!
As for the 7/7 outrage ... the alleged perpetrators of the attack on London's Underground were a group of Anglo-Pakistanis from the North of England. The still footage of them entering the train station at Luton (if I remember correctly) has been Photoshopped. Even an untrained eye can see this. The time stamp on those images indicate their arrival time at the station whereupon they would have missed their rendezvous with destiny! Indeed, the train we have been told they boarded was either cancelled on this day, 7th July 2005, or it had been severely delayed.
Several passenger eye witnesses have sworn they saw nobody board the carriages wearing back-packs and that many swore the explosions had come up through the floor. Photographs do exist that confirm this evidence: the steel members of one undercarriage can clearly be seen pointing upwards into the passenger space. This blast direction explains why so many passengers suffered leg injuries.
Your so-called "government" isn't what you thought it was. I don't doubt there are many professional, dedicated, honourable, and faithful people working for MI5 and MI6, but they are being duped and fooled by the same methods that have you duped and fooled. This secret cabal have already declared war on 'we the people,' and whoever they are, they are NOT Muslims.
So, if you truly want to consider the proper perspective as you have declared in your comment, then you should re-read this comment of mine until it awakens the spark of anger & indignation in your soul. That way, you might at least begin asking very hard questions. You don't need a Ph D., just some applied common sense, honesty, & self-respect!!!
Good luck.
james
* That we were lied to about the extent of co-operation with the US on illegal detentions
* That we were lied to about the extent to which we knew about and supported torture
* That we were lied to about our knowledge of illegal rendition camps
* That we were lied to about the presence of British agents in illegal camps in which people were detained without charge and tortured
That's a lot of lying about a lot of very dirty business. And that is a huge problem.
How MI5 attempted to recruit prison camp inmates
Exclusive: By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Robert, he would be paid "well" for his services in poor countries the banana is sufficient to pay to make a file disappear from the court. The big states who claim to have more cash and longer cars, we need bigger cash to hand over for the exclusive excess to the nuke etc. That is the difference. The word no matter what you call is the payment as graft or bribe. Enough said about this, we had hidden prison, data loss and more poverty. Any luck in tracing the bank managers who must have taken few coins in big bag to give the mortgages to the friends. Is this possible in the elite, rich, places that have now poverty? Are seeking compensation from the Foreign Office, the Home Office, MI5 and MI6 and the Attorney General. This is the only difference. There is no law in poor states. The files and nuke disappear to the richer nation for 200,000.00 dollars and the men live happy ever after.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
Oh Please, you cannot be serious, gaius_godd, they both do their jobs terribly badly .... and can always answer back if they have a mind to ...... but they both have neither the necessary intelligence nor the wider executive support infrastructure to do so effectively and stealthily. as is evidenced by the very fact that they are so obviously being used and abused and hung out to dry and ridiculed.
As is in all such cases, the problem lies right at the top of the Command and Control chain with a head which has less than future viable and inventive constructive imagination. Spookily enough, that is extremely easy to remedy, even should one need to maintain present Intellectually Challenged heads for whatever reason. Simply create a new department head whose raison d'etre/forte is Viable Inventive Constructive Continuity for a Mutual Intelligence, MuI7, which nowadays can be refined and delivered and cloaked in/from/as a Computer Server/a Virtual Machine in and with Cloud Communications Control and well able to Deliver a Virtually Immaculate Stealth IntelAIgents Service to Existing Reality Components/Proponents to Assist them in Converting to the NeuReal Control Change Paradigm which Leads.
However, such may be the Catch 22 Nature of the Enigma, with existing British Intelligence services being unable to even understand an obvious solution, even as it is put to them via a Proxy and an Independent.co.uk article comment, that it may escape their notice and thus further confirm their Lack of IntelAIgents and Fitness for Future Purpose.
And this would be a Live BetaTest of Special Advanced IntelAIgent Research Services which you may like to imagine would challenge any and all in the Field ....such as maybe at "home", MI5, MI6, GCHQ, HMGCC, JIC, ....... to name but just a few of the better known Spooky units, which by the way, are always best kept ill informed of New Quantum Fields of Intelligent Play and Participation, should you be a Joint Partner in a Foreign Power, even with a supposed Special Relation Status?
And this would be a Live BetaTest of their Virtual Server Capability too.
And ...... a Speculative Phish of All Intelligent and Intelligence Service Providers, no matter where they may Reside, for such is the Nature of the CyberSpace Medium in which NIRobotIQs and NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActivity Work, Rest and Play.
Murder, torture, terrorism, lies, crippling sanctions, government selling weapons to just a fuel more war, overthrows, installing puppet dictators, and doing all of this with our taxpaying money.
And using are so called free press to spew their misinformation propaganda lies and censorship of foreign news.
Remember a statement Madeleine Albright said 250,000 Iraqi babies dying because of sanctions is a small price to pay, for democracy. That pretty much sums up our foreign policy death and destruction.
We're only seeing a little tiny bit of the evil that America, with britain's help has been doing throughout the world.
it was so bad that when it happened only one man could speak to the Afghans.Secret service is just that ,even now the Russians and the Chinese are snooping around re.recent reports in the news ,,We have become a laughing stock to them
Gerald Greenman
How did the intellectual by-pass occur?
(when you decided that Guantanamo was a better place to recruit rather than the northern British cities like Leeds and Bradford?)
A captured rabbit isolated from the warren, or the warren its' self?
The UK faces real issues on this problem. Followers of the concept of the "muslim faith" are from many races and many cultures. Individually people from both different races and culture are of benefit.[to the UK]
Those who solely identify with the Islamic belief-system are not as they in effect deny both their own race and culture by doing so. (or are forced to do so from birth).
I do believe in the nation-state as the supreme authority whilst most of these followers do not.
You men and women will be facing the next 10 years in opposition at the next election and I hope you use this time to formulate a policy on a national scale to deal with this issue that is both honest and open and engages the majority, and not the current 1 in 10 that follow this belief system.
The reccession will pass by, this problem will not. Only one segement of the population requires a "good talking to" about the right of a nation-state over an (unproven) belief-system called the Islamic system.
As Gadaffi of Libya recently said, in 50 years from now the Islamic voters throughout Europe would be the key in elections, and bombs and slaughter was unnecessary, whilst at the same time, the German Federal Government predicted in 50 years time the house would be controlled by Islamic parties.
Europe needs to decide what type of democratic future it wants, and how it educates her future children (of all races and cultures) with some teaching on the nation-state and the role it played in silencing and muting the followers of the religious belief-system in order to achieve democracy, or the roots of it."
That is the first and only comment I sent to my former party.
Either Europe starts to lecture the upstarts now or it will pay a heavy price in the future. I'll be dead by then but my son wont- and he's from the generation that is so NOT interested in Politics that if he lived in a real democracy (PR) an Islamic coalition in power would only be noticed by him when the pubs and wine bars closed forever, the fool.
Henri
What ever powers the current government awards itsself at the expense of our individual or collective freedoms, it still doesn't solve the underlying cause behind it.
They grasp and gasp for new controlling laws at our expense but the reason they first began to make them still remains.
Whoever is next in power must be honest and get the grip with the root of the problem.
1,000 new laws won't kill the root mate, they can legistate all they like and continue to steal our freedom, it will still solve nothing and the majority pay.
The British government seems unable or unwilling to deal with it. I'd say it begins with state-schooling and a real history of the UK within the context of why we live in a nation-state and not a religious one, such as the one we once had.
Noble more like.
The questions the agents asked seemed pretty straightforward. Intelligence and national security have never been a bed of roses. Wake up to the real world.
"Those who complain sleep well in their beds, because rough men stand watch at night"
the laeder of the 7-7 terrorists worked as a classroom assistant where Hillary Benn's wife was the Headmistress - 6 months before 7-7 he was part of a school tour of the Commons given by Benn. I think 7- was a covert op by MI5. On the morning of 7-7 Rudolph Gullianai (having just set up his own security and anti - terror company ) was in a hotel in London overlooking one of the station's attacked, Benjaminn Netanyahu was also in London on the morning of the attacks.
First, there's a growing amount of CYA(cover your ass) behaviour. The agents in the field are saying, I'm going to take the heat for a decision made by top management? I don't think so. Meanwhile, top management in MI5 and MI6 are endlessly stalling in telling the truth.
Denial. Press dosclosure. Threaten the press if they proceed. It's "national security." The press continues with the story. What do they do then?
Meanwhile, Attorney General Eric Holder won't prosecute people involved in torture. Instead, let's disbarr all of these attorneys. Isn't that slightly missing the point? That's like taking away a drunk driver's car keys after they've killed someone.
What's the justification for doing this? Political survival. The Democrats are banking on the very fickle attention span of the American public. Give it time and soon they won't remember any of this. They're so busy trying not to be homeless or made redundant that they won't care. I can't see any other reason for them to do this.
But there IS NO justification for not prosecuting. If they don't, this tells the world that Obama can't be trusted. Unless of course these other countries torture as well (Israel being one example). If Obama really opposes torture, how come he doesn't publicize Israel's torture? Because if he did he'd be blackballed from politics forever (thanks to AIPAC). Just ask Cynthia McKinney.
And the action of the publicly funded BBC in refusing to allow its appearance on one of their freely available message boards, is anathema which destroys the Myth of there being such a thing a free speech democratic model in government and its pimping media arms ...... which can really be considered as nothing more than short sighted/visually impaired propaganda machines. And one does wonder at the level of Intelligence in Intelligence Services that would allow such Global Games be Played, without one would quite reasonably have imagined, their SMARTer Leadership. It does rather suggest that presently they follow as whipped pups rather than lead as Lion Hearted, which is always Directly Attributable to both a Personal and Personnel Failings, right at the top of the Pyramid.....and/or Round Pegs in Square Holes.
3. At 5:35 am on 7 May 2009, amanfromMars wrote:
"Sorry, but why should taxpayers money be used to save jobs for people building cars that no one wants?" .... #26. GeoffK1874
Geoffk1874,
And why, whenever wealth can be immediately invented via QE, would any one in government/banking .....and now we have those two "virtual industries" battling against each other for top dog control of money supply and throttling distribution ...... charge a third party such a perverse interest rate, and supply the credit as a loan rather than as a gift which will allow the work force to consider freely the best move forward in changed times ....... for restricting the free availability of cash/currency/credit/call it what you will and creating instead a sum to be repaid called debt, from any who do not print and mint currency, is a burden which is totally unnecessary and merely reduces them to units of slavery to the Capitalist System and that is not good for the Capitalist System for it creates, ranged against it, Billions of Immortal Enemies?
It is the Create Debt instead of Distribute Currency for Exclusive Power which is the Core Systemic Problem which is easily Solved/Resolved with a Simple Fundamental Mindset Change Implemented from Right at the Top Down ........ which in the national UK sphere of influence would be perceived to be something which Gordon Brown and Mervyn King should be contemplating, in Order to Change the Money System from one which Deliberately creates Slavery and Bondage to Currency Printers to one which delivers Freedom and Invention with Currency Printing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/therepor
Which whenever one's IP address is targetted/censored by the BBC, whose motto, ringing hollow, is Nation shall speak peace unto Nation, returns " There has been an unexpected problem. Please reload the page and try again."
Democracy is Dead, Long Live Fascism and Roman Imperialism?
Renegade Hopes Spring Eternal in Renaissance and IT Deadheads into Dynamic Benign Meritocracies ..... Real SMART Virtual Leaderships from the Comfort of Floating Clouds.
Welcome to Merlin, the MetaPhysician's ProgramMING of Cinderella RockerFeller with Virtual TelePortation Protocols in Quantum Communication Algorithm for NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActive Media Assets.
And is the Real Elephant in the Room akin to AIMighty Mouse into C42 Quantum Control Systems ... which would a QuITe Alien Being into the Creation in CyberSpace of the Command and Control of Computers and Communications for AI Singularity of Common Good Universal Purpose? And only posed as a Question for those who would not already know of so much which has already gone on before to ensure Secure Destinations rather than Fateful Outcomes.