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Cameron pays the price of expenses scandal

Independent poll finds huge surge in support for fringe parties

By Andrew Grice, Political Editor

The scandal over MPs' expenses has led to a dramatic drop in support for the Conservatives as voters have turned their backs on all three main parties, the latest ComRes survey for The Independent has found.

Remarkably, the poll puts the "other parties" on 30 per cent – neck and neck with the Tories. The Tories' rating is 15 points down on the last ComRes survey for this newspaper a month ago, before the controversy erupted. It is at its lowest level in any poll since April 2006, poll since April 2006 when David Cameron was engulfed in a row over his party's policy on grammar schools.

If a general election were held now, Labour would win 22 per cent of the votes and the Liberal Democrats 18 per cent, the poll found. That would leave Mr Cameron 46 seats short of an overall majority. The poll suggests that, while Labour has hit rock bottom, the expenses controversy is now dragging down the Tories too. Although Mr Cameron won praise for his response when the scandal broke, there has since been a stream of revelations about how Tory MPs have milked the system.

Labour has dropped four points in the past month, while the Liberal Democrats are up one point and the other parties are up by 18 points.

The findings will worry the Tories ahead of Thursday's local and European elections. There are signs that the controversy on expenses has alienated older people, those normally most likely to vote. Tory support among those aged 65 and over has dropped from 49 to 28 per cent in the past month and, unusually, the party's highest level of support is now among 18 to 24-year-olds. The new poll puts the Greens on 8 per cent, Ukip on 7 per cent, the BNP 3 per cent, the Scottish National Party 2 per cent, Plaid Cymru 1 per cent and other smaller parties or independents 9 per cent.

It suggests the voters' message in Thursday's local and European elections will be to say "a plague on all your houses" to the three main parties. According to ComRes, 80 per cent of people agree that "the Westminster parties" have let the country down, while only 18 per cent disagree.

The poll raises hopes for the Greens and Ukip of a strong showing in Thursday's elections to the European Parliament. It points to a Labour rout that could lead to demands from Labour MPs that Gordon Brown stand down before the general election.

Last night the Prime Minister faced a dilemma over whether to keep Alistair Darling as his Chancellor when he reshuffles his Cabinet – possibly this Friday, when the council results will emerge, and before the European results are announced on Sunday. Mr Darling paid back £668 after he was accused of using his second homes allowance to claim the service charges on his London flat while he was not living there. He apologised unreservedly.

The ComRes survey found strong public support for some of the ideas highlighted by The Independent's Campaign for Democracy. Some 69 per cent of people support the introduction of proportional representation (PR), with 22 per cent opposed to it. Although the Tories oppose electoral reform, 63 per cent of people who support the party back PR, as well as 67 per cent of Labour supporters and 78 per cent of Liberal Democrat supporters.

Some 79 per cent back fixed-term parliaments, with 18 per cent against. There is strong support for Mr Cameron's plan for a reduction in the number of MPs, with 73 per cent in favour and 22 per cent against. This proposal is endorsed by 77 per cent of Tory supporters, 62 per cent of those intending to vote Labour and 59 per cent of those who say they will vote Liberal Democrat.

The anger over the behaviour of MPs is spread across the political spectrum. Some 89 per cent of Tory supporters agree that the main parties have let the country down – a view shared by 67 per cent of Liberal Democrat supporters and 59 per cent of those intending to vote Labour.

Four out of five (79 per cent) people who voted Tory in 2005 would back the party in a general election now, compared with only 54 per cent of those who voted for Labour last time.

ComRes telephoned 1,005 GB adults between 29 and 31 May 2009. Data were weighted by past vote recall. ComRes is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules. Full tables at www.comres.co.uk

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Cameron complicit
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 11:22 pm (UTC)
Tory MPs that have been caught red handed playing the system have been aided and abetted by Cameron in continuing to play the system.

By allowing them to stand down at the next general election, Cameron has allowed them to receive massive pay offs and pension pay outs at our expense. He did NOT sack them immediately thus saving the tax payers millions of pounds. Instead he has effectively rewarded them.

Where, we as members of the pubic, would have been prosecuted, they are being rewarded. Playing the 'system' to the bitter end. Going by track record of hypocrisy, Brown will be even worse.
Re: Cameron complicit
[info]tatcawh wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 06:52 am (UTC)
Cameron can't sack an MP. The most a party leader can do is kick an MP out of his party - so if the MP wants to dig their heels in they'll stay at Westminster as an independent until their term is up and they can collect their pension.

Not that that excuses the feeble tokenism of his response, or his own frivolous claims.
Re: Cameron complicit - [info]bleedingekk - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Cameron complicit - [info]john_b_ellis - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 10:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Cameron complicit - [info]bleedingekk - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:47 am (UTC) Expand
Poll from Ipsos Mori pollshows Tory lead of 22%
[info]dave1234567890 wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 11:51 pm (UTC)
The independent is quoting two polls on the same day with completely different results. Both polls were the same size sample on the same days. Me thinks for the Com Res poll they must have rung Brown's remaining supporters, because the Ipsos Mori poll shows Labour equal to the Lib Dems on 18%, with the Tories on 40%.
I think somebody should be asking for their money back.
Avoid the main parties at the Euro & GE
[info]red_planet92 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 01:15 am (UTC)
I won't be voting for any of the "big three" in either the European election or the General election. Instead I shall be inserting a large electoral firework in the appropriate place.
REMOVE THE SEVERANCE PACKAGE:
[info]bgarvie wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 04:23 am (UTC)
To secure a most important referendum over the Lisbon Treaty, vote Tory. Labour and the Lib/Dems have broken their promises and have failed the electorate. The others, with respect, are so small their empowerment would be inconsequential.
As regards sacking MPs that have abused the allowance system, it is a shame they cannot be sacked immediately. The 'whip' can be withdrawn but nothing more. A rash of by-elections would not help. Perhaps Parliamentary rules can be modified to the extent that no severance package will be received by those proven fraudsters.
Re: REMOVE THE SEVERANCE PACKAGE:
[info]bleedingekk wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:11 am (UTC)
They could be suspended pending ploice investigation?
Tories won't hold a referendum on Lisbon - [info]robertclondon - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: REMOVE THE SEVERANCE PACKAGE: - [info]bishbashbong - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 03:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: REMOVE THE SEVERANCE PACKAGE: - [info]berewic - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 11:23 pm (UTC) Expand
BNP 3%, UKIP 7%?
[info]hedgegrower wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 04:46 am (UTC)
Could someone tell me when UKIP last beat BNP in a poll, anywhere? I know there is a media wide campaign to downplay the British National Party, and it's nice that you have allowed them 3%, up from 1% in the Guardian a while ago, but common sense and simple reading of all the local and council election results from recent polls tend to tell another story.
And, given that those results are real people voting in real elections, should they not be telling a greater truth than an apparently misleading result based on 1005 phone calls to somebody who may fibbing, or may change their minds, and etc?
People who lie look stupid when the truth comes out, as it will.
piggies at the trough, napoleon he is not.
[info]redcliffe62 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 04:59 am (UTC)
all the pollies were at it, there was no accident in swapping which house you claim on and how often you swap it to maximise the troughing. the gtax advice shows they were complicit at all times. they knew it was close to fraud, so just wanted to stay the right side of the legal line, if not the ethical one.
if a vote was taken that anyone who has claimed more than 10,000 quid "incorrectly" in the last 4 years needs to resign without a pension i wonder how many would be embroiled and how many would vote to bring in such legislation, the 2004 aca changes were brought in to allow additional troughing under labour.
who made the decision? can we be told? was it brown and martin? brown (of course) says not him, so who was it?
we understand that as all parties supported it they are ALL to blame. ALL of them in wastemonster.
A LIST
[info]indypen wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 06:31 am (UTC)
On the tories A list for candidates in the next general election is Bill Cashs daughter. Her unique claim to fame is being fully embroiled in the expenses scandal before she even becomes a tory candidate. Her dad paid her rent to stay in her london flat even though he had a flat much nearer westminister. They still don't get the publics anger, no wonder the tories have slumped.
79% still voting for corrupt tories is scary
[info]mind_ful wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 06:34 am (UTC)
the figure of 79% continued support for such a corrupt tory party is really the worst statistic here. It is clear that milking the system doesn't shock most tory voters.
Re: 79% still voting for corrupt tories is scary
[info]bleedingekk wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:12 am (UTC)
Yes, it's insane. Bt thats what happen's when there's no other choice.
Lacklustre
[info]barncactus wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
Cameron is paying the price of not having distinctive policies, or indeed any visible policy. Where is his vision for the UK? If things are really so bad that the vision is depressing, he could make political capital from that. He is inseparable from the City, which at any time is bad news, but right now is a total disaster for him. He has no idea what to do about Europe, and posturing about a referendum is likely to be a liability later. He is bound up with the expenses corruption issues in the Commons. His demeanour is that of a lightweight out of his depth, so far out that he can't even challenge the most incompetent UK govenment since WWII. No wonder people are casting about for alternatives.
Cameron had a good chance to present himself as an alternative leader. He has not done that and Labour will take great comfort from having such a lacklustre opponent.
[info]cm999 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 07:09 am (UTC)
I also notice that Cameron is starting to drag his heals over reform of the Commons. Presumably because having done the PR bit for public consumption he is now looking to return to type. He is well aware that the current system suits him and so his practical implementation of radical reform is likely to be do nothing.
[info]board_member wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 07:33 am (UTC)
Any party, large or small, whose manifesto is 3-4 months of complete electoral and parliamentary overhaul (including transparency issues, accountability and House Of Lords), followed by referendums on the issues, and a new general election, can have my vote.

Come get my vote, politicians. If you REALLY want it, that is.
[info]hedgegrower wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 11:29 am (UTC)
There is only one Party that ticks all your boxes, Board Member. British National Party.
(no subject) - [info]board_member - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 11:48 am (UTC) Expand
Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 02:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]board_member - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 03:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 07:01 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]almightymat - Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 03:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 02:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]almightymat - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 12:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 08:41 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]almightymat - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]almightymat - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 08:36 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]hedgegrower - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Conditioned response? - [info]almightymat - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Chance would be a Fine Thing
[info]loveablelefty wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 07:43 am (UTC)
Much as I'd like to, I don't believe for a moment that Tory support really has plummeted by a third in the space of a month - which would probably be unprecedented in the annals of polling.

While I've no doubt they have been hit, I suspect the figures represent a degree of "confusion" between the European and General Election intentions.

Other recent polls have shown very different intentions for the two (as you would expect). This one seems roughly to have "split the difference". I could be wrong, but I suspect methodological problems.

The real point though is that the polls do suddenly seem to have become a lot more volatile.

If the Tories reallly do end up with their lowest vote share ever come the next election - as this suggests - then I will be delighted, but will probably suspect that I have died and been resurrected in another dimension.
ComRes, oh dear
[info]ed_fender wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC)
ComRes have shown themselves to be ridiculously out of line with all other polling over the last year (at least). They're rubbish.

If you believe this, you'll believe anything.
Come off it this is clearly a rogue
[info]nbeale wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 08:33 am (UTC)
I track all the polls and this poll is clearly a rogue. The Weighted Moving Average of all the polls is 37:22:19. ComRes is quite erratic, and has recently produced 2 polls (30-Nov and 19-Sept) which underestimated the CLead by similar amounts.
Poll propaganda
[info]thirdman01 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 08:39 am (UTC)
I would totally ignore these opinion polls. They are not accurate and at worst they are pure propaganda. I can not see why 22 percent would vote New Labour?

The Liberals have a lower rating than I would suggest.
The polls always put the Liberals down.

Lies, lies, spin, spin and statistics. If you do a poll in a safe seat or say in a city centre business district you are going to get a bias result. You can poll for the result you want.

My suggestion is these opinion polls represent propaganda to influence public support for the establishment.

Polls are a political tool for influencing voting patterns.
They should not be conducted immediately before an election since they deface democracy.
Paying the price
[info]brinksman wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:03 am (UTC)
Ah, the irony of such a headline. If only they had paid the price in the first place...
www.millarcrime.com
The real issue
[info]twellian057 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:04 am (UTC)
If support for Cameron has dropped, it is not only because of revelations about tory MPs. Both Cameron and Brown have clearly stated that they will not reform the electoral system; but it desperately needs to be changed from FPTP, which locks us all in to the two-party corrupt turn-and-turn-about cycle.
The support for "others" is a clear indication that the electorate want change. Change that can not and will not come from Conservatives or Labour.
Cameron
[info]luing wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
You reap what you sew...All these MP's are guilty, they were all aware that the taxpayer was being ripped off...I certainly would not vote for any of them...Cameron is just as bad...paying money back does not make it right!
CONFLICTING POLL
[info]kowalski99 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
Strange- in last nights Independant, they ran the story 'Conservatives have 22 point over Labour' which was aMori Ipsos poll. That story has dissapeared. Why????
the party's highest level of support is now among 18 to 24-year-olds
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
Think back, remember that funny old lady with the big pointy nose and funny hair and loud voice who your daddy didn't like when she was on telly, the one who your daddy said had stopped you having milk at school, Mrs Thatcher the milk snatcher? She is sort of Mr Cameron's mummy. You're not to young not to remember....
Wake up Cameron
[info]albertcalvert wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:28 am (UTC)
David Cameron has missed the boat by not acting swifter with obvious fraudsters like Bill Cash.
He should have sacked Cash immediately on learning the truth about his theft.

Dithering Dave is not the man to lead the U K out of this mess.
I will be voting Ukip in two days.
ComRes telephoned 1,005 GB adults
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:31 am (UTC)
A great sample - with 46 million registered voters that amounts to each person in the sample corresponding to 46,000 people.
ComRes
[info]francis231160 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC)
ComRes uses a methodology that is as yet unproven. Its Chief Executive admits this. Given the consistency from the other pollsters, it is difficult to take the ComRes numbers seriously. It's like any statistical analysis of any sample - you ignore rogue numbers like this. Unfortunately, the political view of the readership of the Independent would like this poll to be true but therein lies a danger of disappointment. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king - more apposite than usual at present to the nation as a whole but in this case it refers to the Independent and its readership. Have a look at www.politicalbetting.com and you'll see what I mean with the article posted by Mike Smithson on June 1st.
Meaning of polls
[info]yorkie1978 wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 10:13 am (UTC)
What do these polls mean in the end anyway, considering the election system Britain has? Will Labour's 22% indeed result in 1 out of 5 MPs being Labour after elections, or will there be Green MPs as well after elections? It has happened before that a part got 10% of the votes but no MPs in the end.

While Britain is cleaning its Parliament, just sacking those MPs who did wrong is not enough. A change of the electoral system is needed to have MPs realise they cannot take their constituency for granted.
I looked at ComRes poll it looks very fishy
[info]rickraider wrote:
Tuesday, 2 June 2009 at 10:38 am (UTC)
They have switched the base selection here to favour Labour for some reason. All other reputable pollsters try to keep a consistent base from poll to poll. ComRes has not and therefore their results are unlikely to be as valid as all the other pollsters which show a totally different picture. Looks very fishy to me as it has been biased for some reason. Does anyone at the Independent want to comment on this as the poll does not look politically "independent".
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