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Terrorist threat 'exploited to curb civil liberties'

Security measures brought in after September 11 attacks 'undermined the rule of law'

By Kim Sengupta

Stella Rimington: British citizens 'live in fear and under a police state'

EPA/ANGEL DIAZ

Stella Rimington: British citizens 'live in fear and under a police state'

Dame Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5, has accused the Government of exploiting public fear of terrorism to restrict civil liberties.

Her comments came on the same day as a report published by international jurists suggested that Britain and America have led other countries in "actively undermining" the rule of law and "threatening civil liberties" in the guise of fighting terrorism.

In an interview with the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia, Dame Stella said that a series of increasingly draconian policies have led British citizens to "live in fear and under a police state".

The 73-year-old said: "Since I have retired I feel more at liberty to be against certain decisions of the Government, especially the attempt to pass laws which interfere with people's privacy.

"It would be better that the Government recognised that there are risks, rather than frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear and under a police state."

Dame Stella, who became the first female head of MI5 in 1992 and held the position until 1996, has long been a vocal critic of the Government's plans to introduce ID cards and lengthen the amount of time terror suspects are held without charge to 42 days. In the interview yesterday, she also criticised the United States.

She said: "The US has gone too far with Guantanamo and the tortures. MI5 does not do that. Furthermore it has achieved the opposite effect: there are more and more suicide terrorists finding a greater justification."

The former MI5 chief chose to air her views on the same day as a three-year study called for urgent measures to stop the erosion of individual freedom by states and the abandoning of draconian measures brought on with the "War on Terror".

The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) said the legal framework which broadly existed in democratic countries before 9/11 was "sufficiently robust to meet current threats".

Instead, a series of security measures were brought in, many of which were illegal and counter-productive, instilling anger and resentment expressed through violent protests.

One worrying development, says the report, was that liberal democracies such as the UK and US have been at the forefront of advocating the new aggressive policies and that has given totalitarian regimes the excuse to bring in their own repressive laws.

The ICJ panel, which included Mary Robinson, the former Irish president and United Nations Human Rights Commissioner and Arthur Chaskelson, the former president of the South African constitutional court, gathered their evidence from 40 countries.

They took testimony from government officials, ministers, and people in prison for alleged terrorist offences.

The actions of the US has immense influence on the behaviour of other countries, the study maintained, and the jurists called on President Barack Obama to repeal policies which came with the "war on terror paradigm" and were inconsistent with international human rights law. "In particular, it should renounce the use of torture and other proscribed interrogation techniques, extraordinary renditions, and secret and prolonged detention without charge or trial".

The report stated: "The framework of international law is being undermined... the US and UK have led that undermining."

The jurists examined cases which included "individuals abducted and held in secret prisons, where they have been tortured and ill-treated; terrorist suspects held incommunicado for extended periods before being charged and before they have access to lawyers; a culture of secrecy (in which) suspects are being placed beyond the basic protections afforded by... international humanitarian laws".

The ICJ "received evidence that intelligence services... effectively enjoy impunity for human rights violations. In addition... state secrecy or public interest immunity have been used to foreclose civil suits and hence remedies to the victims of such abuses."

Mr Chaskelson, chairman of the panel, said: "... we have been shocked by the extent of the damage done over the past seven years by excessive... counter-terrorism measures..."

A Home Office spokesman said: "We recognise clearly our obligations to protect the public from terrorist atrocities while upholding our firm commitment to human rights and civil liberties. Our policies strike that balance."

'War on terror' The mistakes repeated

*Giving evidence to the panel, Sir Ken Macdonald, Britain's Director of Public Prosecutions said: "There is no such thing as a 'war on terror'... The fight against terrorism on the streets of Britain is not a war. It is the prevention of crime, enforcement of our laws ..."

The report also says the "war on terror" is repeating the mistakes made by the British in Northern Ireland. It states: "Sometimes the parallels are almost surreal. Witnesses talked of the failed detention policies in Northern Ireland as having led to 'hundreds of young men in working-class nationalist communities joining the IRA and creating one of the most efficient insurgency forces in the world ...' One must wonder, 30 years later, what impact the sight of the treatment of detainees at Guantánamo Bay or Abu Ghraib is having on young Muslims in Britain and elsewhere."

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No Sh t Sherlock
[info]dostoyevsky01 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:03 am (UTC)
There are amongst us lawyers and many others who have been saying this for years whilst the journalists stayed silent.

The real tragedy of the last 8 years is that investigative journalism had a hand in murdering truth by standing aside and letting it happen. And then, to add insult to injury, the pseudo journalists threw dirt on the shallow grave, like a cat trying to cover up its own stinking sh t, as they all rode side saddle up front in the tanks as embedded propagandists, who just got a little too far into bed with the devil, were satiated - in the words of Bill Hicks by Satan's pecker - fell asleep in the morning, missed their deadlines and acquiesced whilst their integrity was stolen from them by the devil's guile!

When the 'true journalists' return, then normality may resume.
But whilst we have cowards.....
Re: No Sh t Sherlock
[info]rogdix wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 02:40 am (UTC)
Wonderful precise sir! Thank you.
Re: No Sh t Sherlock - [info]cronyblatcher - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 07:58 am (UTC) Expand
Re: No Sh t Sherlock - [info]l3enz0 - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:05 am (UTC) Expand
Re: No Sh t Sherlock - [info]l3enz0 - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 10:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: No Sh t Sherlock - [info]forwardplanning - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: No Sh t Sherlock - [info]sara_sense - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 10:05 am (UTC) Expand
blame the Home Office
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:29 am (UTC)
the Home Office has become a nest of closet fascists- they have their own agendas and Brown and Smith are firmly under their thumb. We all need to be on our guard against them, Zanulabour won't protect us and our freedoms. if you want to see their operatives go to the Royal Courts of Justice(aka the RCJ) when there is an immigration case on and look out for sinister looking men in brown raincoats- they make the Gestapo look like fluffy bunnies
Re: blame the Home Office
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 08:15 am (UTC)
whose "thumb" d'you think the HO is "under"?
Re: blame the Home Office - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: blame the Home Office - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 02:27 pm (UTC) Expand
let's learn from all this.
[info]gaius_godd wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 02:49 am (UTC)
Dame Stella's wise words should be heeded. The UK is a land covered from coast to coast by a thick forest of laws. We need to remain a land governed by the Rule of Law. On the other hand we need our Security Services to remain effective in catching terrorists. It is not an easy call. On the whole I think we may have erred on the side of caution but if that saves lives and prevents terrorist attacks, surely a little inconvenience at the airports is worth it?

We need to be realistic as well as idealistic. The unseen heroes of the Security Services deserve our full support and sympathy for the difficult and challenging job in keeping us all safe.
Re: let's learn from all this.
[info]findempire wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 07:59 am (UTC)
Wise words indeed and all the more weighty coming from a former chief spook. Stella Rimington has been a vocal campaigner against New Labour's police state measures. However, let's not forget that Dame Stella is no vestal virgin and may be seeking to ingratiate herself with the Tories lest they be inclined to dig up the bodies that she buried. Her tenure at MI5 was one during which Britain earned the moniker "Londonistan" from the EU's security services, meaning that it harbored jihadi terrorists and shielded them from continental anti-terrorist forces, as in the case of Abu Qatada, the European head of Al Qaeda:

Al-Qaeda cleric exposed as an MI5 double agent


Allies say warnings were ignored

ONE of al-Qaeda?s most dangerous figures has been revealed as a double agent working for MI5, raising criticism from European governments, which repeatedly called for his arrest.

Britain ignored warnings ? which began before the September 11 attacks ? from half a dozen friendly governments about Abu Qatada?s links with terrorist groups and refused to arrest him.

When Britain finally put out a warrant for Abu Qatada, MI5 hid him in a London safehouse:

Britain 'sheltering al-Qaeda leader'


A senior al-Qaeda leader is reportedly being looked after by British intelligence at a safe house in northern England - but security sources are denying the claim.

Abu Qatada is accused by the United States, Spain, France and Algeria of being a key influence in the 11 September attacks on the US.

Another one of Dame Stella's protégés was Abu Hamza al Masri aka Captain Hook, the veteran jihadi who got his hooks after he blew his hands off while making terrorist bombs. Abu Hamza sent terrorists all over the world, including his own sons (who got arrested in Yemen), the "20th 9-11 hijacker" Moussaoui, and the shoe bomber Richard Reid, and indoctrinated two of the London 7/7 bombers - probably during his pavement sermons in front of Finsbury Park mosque, from which the Muslim Council of Britain ejected him. "Captain hook" was able to continue giving jihadi sermons on the pavement thanks to the gracious services of the Met, which provided him with a police cordon [photo].

The Untouchable: how Abu Hamza was allowed to preach hate as authority looked the other way


By Sean O'Neill and Daniel McGrory
Time and time again British officials were given evidence of the radical cleric's involvement in terrorism, but nothing was done to stop him.

Stella Rimington and her successor Stephen Lander were up to their elbows in manufacturing the terror that Blair & Brown use as an excuse to institute a police state, whose purpose is now becoming clearer as the deepening recession sparks riots and threatens governments all over Europe.
"a little inconvenience at the airports" - [info]cronyblatcher - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Civil liberties eroded!
[info]safwan09 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 02:51 am (UTC)
Well it is true, but since when and by who?
Since Tony Blair blindedly glued himself onto Bush's skin, then we started to see such descents into the beginning of the abyss. The lack of experience of Blair and the hawkish postering by the neo-cons disarmed Blair and locked his reasoning away. The result is language and attitude, by Blair and his backers, sounded alarm bells and the current team in office is not to be blamed for entirely.
Watch out: Post-Millenium Rant coming right up...
[info]europat7 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 03:37 am (UTC)
I do not know what it's like in the UK (where I have longed to escape to for years) but the US has become little more than a prison system without walls; everyone is either a 'cop' a 'commie,' a Satanist, a Neocon, or a rightwing fundamentalist... This is not a joke.

The scene here is so end-of-the-millenium ridiculous, it's like the Balkanization of Russia--economically as well--but without the Russian Mafia. Instead, we have the Black Mafia, the Jewish Mafia, and of course the regular Italian Mafia. And these groups all play their little roles in the New World Order.

Whoever opened this can of worms should be shot, as it has has resulted in the bankrolling of cronies/idiots, vampirization of the world's banking system, and the destruction of the foundations of decency in my country. The men who wrote the Constiution, Bill of Rights, established the foundations of a republic and working democracy--they are toast.

As far as Tony Blair is concerned, to be fair, he and the UK came to the aid of the US when everyone was horrified by 9/11 and snookered by GWB's Oedipal scheme to get Saddam. I think that Blair's initial actions were nostalgic, Churchillian, and noble. What Blair knew and when he knew it (re: WMD) is up to his own conscience and Britain to figure out. But the saddest part of it is there are no more Winston Churchills. His era is past us.

Now we harken back to Winston Smith (1984). And the nightmare of it all is that with all the advanced technology of the so-called 'masters of the universe' things are running in the most incompetently imaginable way...

What price freedom? We don't need history to answer that question for us, as we already know.
Yes, It's called the New World Order
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 06:31 am (UTC)
As Dame Stella correctly notes, this has all been done by deliberate intention.

Reduced to simple terms - it's a way for non-producing, economically bankrupt countries (USA, UK) to retain their financial hegemony, by brute military threat. An alliance of "haves" who live well at the expense of "have-nots" who live in permanent fear of the air strike on their capital city by the combined military forces of the USA and Britain. No? Tell me how the USA attacked a European country and bombed its capital, attacking civilian housing, bridges, stations being used by civilians? And that zionist Nazi sow Billary "We landed under sniper fire" Clinton is now back in charge and ready for more.

TONY BLAIR - a traitor and warmonger who sold his country to the NWO for cash. Manufactured the factual basis of three USA-initiated wars (Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq). Didn't attend the funeral of a single soldier who died doing his bidding - couldn't be bothered.

JACK STRAW - a pro-Zionist warmonger who still believes there are WMD in Iraq. Said he'd refuse to meet any of his constituents if they dressed according to their religious beliefs.

GEOFF HOON - lied and cheated his way to the top. Sent the British Army to do Bush's bidding for free, and didn't even give them suitable kit. Subsequently tried to walk away from responsibility for the ensuing deaths. Has been rewarded by the NWO with a cushy top-paid sinecure.

"LORD" MANDELSON - another ambitious neo-con crook who has found his religious background a distinct advantage in becoming one of the highest-paid warmongers in Britain today. Currently promoted to being in charge of business - about which this smarmy liar knows nothing whatsoever.

DAVID MILIBAND - the most dangerous of the neo-nazi Zionists. A ruthless and vicious warmonger, Miliband has been active in anti-Russian activities. Actively defended Georgia's territorial war on S Ossetia and Abkhazia, in which huge numbers of civilians were attacked and massacred by Miliband's ally President Suckarse-vili of Georgia. Got his b*llocks badly bruised when Russia counter-attacked and kicked the Georgian Army back to where it belonged. Most recently this gutless little tosser has been active this week, denying a visa to Russian concert pianist Grigory Sokolov to come and play his sell-out concert in London. This is the level of spineless w*nk that defines David Miliband's reign as the worst Foreign Secretary since WW2.

"SIR" JOHN SCARLETT - the clueless tosser who utterly failed to predict either 9/11 or the London bombings. Was promoted as a result. Well done, Sir John! You are truly a talentless twonk.

"SIR" IAN BLAIR. An crypto-Nazi copper who had some kind of "hold" over his paymasters to prevent his dismissal. Ordered, planned and executed extra-judicial beatings and slayings, with the assistance of his loyal fascist thug, Cressida Dick. Blair subsequently avoided prosecution for his crimes and retired on a massive pension - Dick has been promoted.
CIVIL LIBERTIES ?
[info]bgarvie wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC)
I would rather believe a professional, like Dame Stella, than our dysfunctional Foreign Secretary or Home Secretary. The latter two have tried to manipulate facts to suit their own political agendas.

The truth will always come out because "nothing is as it seems"
The Big Con and its ComeUppance ..... The Inevitable Reckoning
[info]amanfrommars wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 06:40 am (UTC)
"and creating one of the most efficient insurgency forces in the world .."

And what of today and the legacy/peace dividend which sees Orange and Green equally irrelevant and "groomed"/succoured and suckered into the traditional western capitalist government role model? Is there a monumental failure of independent Intelligence/United Irishman Intelligence to lead a small smart nation on a path to shared greater riches which generates a more harmonious cointerindependency for a mutually beneficial, future educational nurturing of Society, to Create a Smarter, Learning, Creative People well versed in the Power of Mass Edutainment, which they can Use at Home to Build a New Regional InterDependency and InterNetional Force, which can easily be adopted and adapted and exported to every and any broken spot on the planet.

40 years of dumb chaos and crazy mayhem* have not been wasted on some who would recognise the folly of its cynical placement in service of its less than wholesome supporters/backers ..... into Destabilisation as their Means of Maintaining Foreign Money Power Control through National Debts and the Management of Perception for Big Picture Controls which ingrain the Notion that Repayment is Due to Keep the Folly Functioning.

However, Times have changed, and SMARTer Beings/CyberIntelAIgent Organisations into Virtualisation and Quantum Communications Technologies and Methodologies are Offering Alternative Vision Programs complete with all Necessary AIdDrivers and Stealthy IntelAIgent Support with Public Monies XXXXStreamly well spent in Holywood for the Nervous Centre which Relays Mentored and Monitored Local Support and InterNetional AIdD Operations ..... Virtually, by Virtue of New Fangled, Entangling String Theory and Binary VXXXXine/Digital Virus.

And that puts Northern Ireland and its Populus at the Forefront of Future Binary Technologies, Leading by Living Example, as Virtual AI Operating Systems are BetaTested to Never Fail, other than Always FailSafe.

* Been there, done that, learnt more than most can ever even begin to imagine?
From the horse's mouth
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 07:55 am (UTC)
Who can dispute it now?

Nobody is better qualified to say whether or not th rise and rise of the snooper State is necessary.
WELL WELL!!
[info]soaring_eagle1 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 08:15 am (UTC)

KNEW THAT ALL ALONG!
The Imaginary Enemy
[info]johnsmith007 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC)
Not only was terrorism was exploited, it was invented and acted upon in order to push new laws through
to curb civil liberties.
They are now able to freeze accounts, listen to our phone calls, read our mail, arrest us without charge,
the list is endless.
Terrorists
[info]jono659 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 08:52 am (UTC)
Strange really, terrorists want to force us to think the way they do and to change what we do to suit their isea of living.

Surveillance, invasions of civil liberties on a daily basis and 24/7 tracking of individuals via ID cards CCTV and now wanting to access telephone calls and emails.

The war for terror is already lost, the govenment have become the terrorists curtialing our freedoms and rights. Be afraid, be very afraid.
New restrictions on photography
[info]peteloud wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 08:53 am (UTC)
Another restriction on ciivil liberties came into effect this week with it becoming illegal to photograph police, military and intelligence personnel.

If someone photographs the police or military doing something against the law guess who ends up in jail.
The - So-Called - War on Terror
[info]neil639 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:00 am (UTC)
How many still remember the elderly gentleman who was detained by Police under anti-terrorism legislation for simply expressing quite justifiable political dissent by heckling a Government Minister at a political rally. It is not so much anti-terrorism legislation, but anti-political dissent legislation. It is no good thinking that a new set of politicians will sweep away this legislation. If and when they are "elected" (with just 27 to 30 per cent of the vote) it is likelythat they too will find it a handy tool for stifling justifiable political dissent by otherwise law abiding people.
[info]brinksman wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:21 am (UTC)
So, Stella, M15 does not torture? I had to go and check my calander and guess what? It wasn't the first of April! Catch yourself on, Stella, spouting a load of old crap like that. Just ask anyone in the Nort of Ireland if M15 tortures, or not. What a load of old you know what from the voice of a hypocrite.
Power
[info]cjn1946 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:33 am (UTC)
These people who create laws to protect the public from "terrorism" are using it as an excuse to expand their control over the country; believing that they are protecting us - who cannot think for ourselves and do not understand the situation. This is the melogamania that infects all politicians and has enabled them to create a government system of rule by political parties that protects its friends and contributers and is as far away from true democracy as the Monarchy was in past.
"Undermine the Rule of Law"
[info]markmaytree wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:36 am (UTC)
We are no longer dealing with rational people: the "Rule of Law" does not apply to them. It is no longer a question of whether we are "Undermining the Rule of Law" it has become a question of: "Is this the Right Thing to Do?". I think that it is. Furthermore, we should allow convert and clandestine recordings to be admissible as evidence.
The Catholic Christian teachings in the Apocrypha (as edited out by Cromwell) are apposite: "Bring to the Light that Which is Hidden".
Mark.
Yes this government must take some blame but so must previous ones
[info]richardjeff wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:40 am (UTC)
This government has been naive, stupid and knee jerk reacted on terrorism and fell for the line spun by the previous USA administration. However let us remember the speed at which Margaret Thatcher sacked anyone who disagreed with her and dealt with IRA Sinn Fein by gaging and making reporting on their views illegal. We have become a country that disallows free speech over the last 30 years, not just the last 8 or 10. We must debate opposing views not gag them and only disllow if they are direct calls to violence and murder. (But then any talk of war by a government might come under that heading too?!?)

Blair was flawed in his judgments, clouded by his religious convictions and primed by misinformation from his own and US intelligence services.

Brown, though I believe sincere, has not the flair nor the strategic insights to do more than follow the patterns established by his advisors.
Re: Yes this government must take some blame but so must previous ones
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 11:23 am (UTC)
Blair was and still is a professional opportunist with an attention span as long as that of a billiard ball. A cerebral prostitute.
[info]world_of_water wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:42 am (UTC)
'We will never surrender to terrorists'
But we will use them to destroy your hard won liberties.
Is this news?
[info]sara_sense wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 09:58 am (UTC)
I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of this, however, this is not NEWs. This is not new, we have been saying this for years. 9/11 was crap, 7/7 was crap, the economy is crap, journalism is crap, the only thing we produce in this country is weapons, the east hates us (for good reason) and now we need to do something about it, for we are the ones that suffer. We are the poor ones, the ones who take the tube, the ones who are spied on, who have our liberties taken away, not the cowards and fools who make these rules. When is enough enough? Please can we have the revolution now?
"can we please have the revolution now"
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 11:43 am (UTC)
Only if mass abstention from the pseudo-democracy is engineered for the next erection. Alternatives might seem attractive but they ain't anything like as effective.
Re: "can we please have the revolution now" - [info]sara_sense - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:16 pm (UTC) Expand
The trend is your friend - [info]cronyblatcher - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The trend is your friend - [info]sara_sense - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The trend is your friend - [info]cronyblatcher - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The trend is your friend - [info]sara_sense - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 02:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Is this news? - [info]zanulabour - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:40 pm (UTC) Expand
'A am a free man' said No. 6
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC)
There is a growing number of people who are finally waking up to this drip, drip oppression NuLabour started within 12 months of getting into power.

The few, such as myself, were ridiculed as conspiracy theorists because we recognized the different, seemingly unrelated, controls being implemented for the most spurious reasons. Bit like separate pieces of rope, when tied together create a net of control against the masses.

I am relieved more are waking up to the reality.

I am even more relieved that it is being questioned at international level, because this cabal refuse to listen to the people. Yet more evidence of their totalitarian behaviour.

Similarly, Blair did not change the Treason Laws because they were out of date, surplus to the needs of the modern world, they were changed to protect themselves. They need to be re-instated.

Parliament needs to grow some backbone, call on the Queen and ask her to dissolve this government. Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Campbell and all existing and previous members of this cabals cabinet should be charged with fraud, corruption, treason and war crimes.

Time for them to take stock of where their loyalties should lie and stand up and be counted, or be considered 'fair game' when the rioting commences.
Re: 'A am a free man' said No. 6
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 11:38 am (UTC)
"Rioting" is not the answer. It would strengthen your parasites. The effective solution is mass abstention from the pseudo-democracy. That way the trend is on your side - and don't tell me 'they' aren't scared of it.
Re: 'A am a free man' said No. 6 - [info]forwardplanning - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'A am a free man' said No. 6 - [info]cronyblatcher - Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Truth is coming out
[info]scousekraut wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 10:30 am (UTC)
Well bit by bit people are waking up to what is going on. We should also mention that the Wars on Drugs and Poverty are also non-existent.

Furthermore all these "Wars" are promoted by the same elite group who finance, manipulate and use terrorism, or are the terrorists, make lots of money on drugs trading and money laundering and have an interest in keeping a large percentage of the population poor.

Since each of them started "terrorism" has increased, drug consumption gone through the roof and the gap between rich and poor widened. The Law of Attraction in action.
New Labour Norm
[info]taxfries wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 10:50 am (UTC)
I can vaguely recall an article by Andrew Marr, written around 2001, which conjectured that liberal democracy could not survive in the UK long into the 21st century given the autocratic nature of British governments and the IT now at their disposal.

This pessimism seems borne out. No one can doubt that New Labour have used the so-called war on terror as a pretext for dismantling civil liberties, and are constructing a society in which the (illusory) safety of a police state with blanket surveillance and summary sentencing without courts is the ideal norm.
Marr
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 11:48 am (UTC)
That was when he still had some rough edges. You wouldn't get todays smoothie BBC/dot_Gov propagandist saying anything of the kind.
Terrorist threat 'exploited to curb civil liberties' & 'War on terror' The mistakes repeated
[info]vertalernl wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 12:52 pm (UTC)
at last - a breath of fresh air and common sense - thank you.
but will the authorities take heed?
Dame Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5,
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 01:00 pm (UTC)
Dame Eimington's assessment is a prime reason that Tony Blair and his cabinet need to stand trial for crimes against humanity at the World Court--and when convicted feel the full weight of the law and judgment. The judgment of Nuremberg declared that no one is above the law, and Tony Blair is identical to Eichmann and other Nazis who have abused, ordered, and condoned torture and murder of civilians--a crime worthy of the death penalty. Not until this gaggle of goons is swept away will there be any freedom for anyone, and wars and suicide bombings will continue. The same is true in my nation of which I am thoroughly ashamed--the USA--for now Obama has betrayed his own message of hope and change and has endorsed through his vile and nefarious Department of Justice the same evil tactics of the failed W Bush administration. Obama, W Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and the chiefs of the CIA (with their illegal and secret prisons from Poland to Peru) should stand trial for crimes against humanity along with Tony Blair and his ilk if the world is ever to be free of this retreat into fascism. I applaud Rimington for speaking out--now it is time for citizens of the USA and UK to speak out as a united voice and rid the world of Blair, W Bush, Obama, and their cabinets who consort to further torture and hide evidence from the world about their pathetic deeds.
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