Tories dismiss EU backlash
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David Cameron vowed to change the law so that no further powers could be lost to the EU without a UK referendum
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The Tories said a backlash from Europe "won't make a difference" today as David Cameron was accused by a leading French minister of "castrating" Britain's influence in Brussels.
The Conservative leader yesterday promised to try to wrest back powers from the European Union after ditching his pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
He also vowed to change the law so that no further powers could be lost to the EU without a UK referendum.
But his positioning drew charges that he was pandering to the strongly eurosceptic wing of his party and provoked angry criticism from a member of France's centre-right government.
Pierre Lellouche, the French minister for Europe, told The Guardian that Mr Cameron's plans would marginalise Britain in continental affairs.
"It's pathetic. It's just very sad to see Britain, so important in Europe, just cutting itself out from the rest and disappearing from the radar map," he said.
But shadow foreign secretary William Hague told BBC Breakfast the party would take criticism "in our stride".
Mr Hague said: "I think more senior members of the French Government would take a more careful approach. We take that in our stride.
"Will we we get back a bit of abuse for it? Yes, but that won't make a difference."
Mr Lellouche said the Tories had a "bizarre autism " on the EU and likened their latest moves to their withdrawal from the main centre-right grouping in the European Parliament.
"They are doing what they have done in the European Parliament," he said. "They have essentially castrated your UK influence in the European Parliament."
He also insisted there was no chance of European leaders helping the Tories re-negotiate powers at this stage.
"It's not going to happen for a minute," he said. "Nobody is going to indulge in rewriting (treaties for) many, many years.
"Nobody is going to play with the institutions again. It's going to be take it or leave it, and they should be honest and say that."
Mr Cameron said yesterday that it was pointless to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty now that all 27 European Union members have signed the document.
He said he did not want to "rush into a massive Euro-bust-up".
But he also sought to quell Tory anger at the U-turn by proposing what he called a "referendum lock" on the further transfer of powers to the EU.
He said he would seek to negotiate the return of powers in areas of social and employment legislation and criminal justice, and a complete opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights.
And he proposed a United Kingdom Sovereignty Bill to make explicit, in the absence of a written British constitution, that ultimate authority remains with the Westminster Parliament.
In an illustration of the difficulty of his position however, the Tory leader is also facing backbench demands to go further and pledge a referendum on Britain's relationship with the EU.
Eurosceptic Conservative MP Douglas Carswell insisted that such a referendum was essential.
"I fully accept that a referendum on Lisbon may no longer be possible, but nobody under the age of 52 has ever had the chance to vote on our membership and our relationship," he said.
"It's changed quite dramatically since we joined.
Last night, Eurosceptic Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan quit as European legal spokesman in protest at his party's stance on the Lisbon Treaty.
Announcing his resignation on his Telegraph blog, Mr Hannan said he would return to the back benches to campaign for "a broad movement within the Conservative Party that will push for referendums, citizens' initiatives and the rest of the paraphernalia of direct democracy".
In a letter to The Sun newspaper explaining his position, Mr Cameron said: "I did not promise a referendum come what may because once the Lisbon Treaty is the law, there's nothing anyone can do about it. And I'm not going to treat people like fools and offer a referendum that has no effect.
"What I am promising today is do-able, credible, deliverable - giving the British people a policy on Europe they can actually believe in."
He insisted: "Never again should it be possible for a British government to transfer power to the EU without the say of the British people."
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Comments
Now that Camerons hollow election gambit on the Lisbon Treaty has fallen apart he searches around for some other gimmick and seeks comfort allying the conservatives with some suspect right wing groups.
My honest advise for you Brits is just leave the EU. We are sick and tired of your continual whinging. The UK could have made an important contribution and played a centre role in the EU as France and Germany but you have chosen the spoiler role. Time the EU moved on and leave you Brits rooted in your past and your misplaced sense of importance.
Just remind me again who is the second largest nett contributer to the 'unaudited' EU funds - and remind me again that I have a choice and a free will to make that choice. You seemed a bit to wrapped up in your cotton wool to be able to see what choice is. So - how old are you?
Always remember people who offered the referendum first in writing their manifesto, Bliar, Brown nuliebor et al....
Which court have countless of our citizens turned too, to get justice? From union closed shop injustices, to human rights, to equality and fairness, to working hours limits, to the Human Rights Act. Most of the our best legislation has come from Europe.
Whenever I go to any European country and I do often, I an always impressed by there infrastructure, cleanliness and general organisation..
We kept out of the Euro, now it is out performing the pound by miles...and I bet it will get stronger and stronger.
Lets learn from our neighbouring continent rather than blindly turn away from all that is good with Europe...
We say we want to be leaders in Europe, & then we opt out of this bit, & run away from that bit. No wonder those in Europe laugh behind & sometimes in front of their hands.
We can not make up our minds.
What many younger people forget is that we had a referendum & we voted to be in.
The best way to sort things out is to get in there, fully, join the Euro, & maybe one day the Europeans might start to believe in us.
I far prefer a Union of Europe than being the fifty first state!
As to the rant of M Lellouche, Lord Tebbitt summed this up well. It is just the usual French debating method and is employed whenever any country tries to act independently of the EU tribe. Mrs Thatcher had to deal with it dozens of times.
What backlash at the ballot box? He has'nt lied he's had the rug pulled by ratification. Blair/Brown lied about referendums. If you are Eurosceptic who would you turn to, Labour, Lib Dem? Oh UKIP you say, what, the people are going to vote UKIP in a big way in a GE are they? And with the state this country is in, I doubt it.
I would say it is leftie wishful thinking.
Many people have spoken out, trying to dissuade people from the view that the UK would be "better off", be more independent than it is currently holding membership of the EU. It seems that the "Britain is best" lobby is growing in the UK though, despite all evidence to the contrary.
A simple fact is that the UK is far behind the achievements of almost every other EU member state, currently - not because of it's EU membership, but despite it.
To illustrate how badly the UK is doing, it currently has 30% of it's population aged 65 or over at risk of poverty. This is a very high figure indeed when compared to Italy, with 22%, Germany at 17%, France at 13% and even Greece at a mere 23%.
Of course, you might just say that they are "old" and non-productive, so don't deserve to be supported by the state once their working life is over. They should have invested in stocks and bonds to prepare for life after work. Shouldn't they. Well, no. The majority of people in the UK, as everywhere else in the world, are workers that just about make ends meet through their lives.
So, how about the "golden" generation? How are the 30-somethings doing? Much better, you will be pleased to know. In fact, only 14% of the UK population between the ages of 25-49 are "at risk" from poverty. Much better than Greece and Italy who have 14% "at risk" - but not up to the French standards where only 11% are "at risk".
Of course, statistics are easy to misuse - as evidenced by the BNP and their own "use" of statistics. Of course, theirs are just made up on the spur of the moment, whilst these are all from eurostat.
Ah, I have just made the error of mentioning something European here, haven't I. They must all be false just to ensnare the UK into giving even more money to the EU, eh? But why should the EU want to strip the UK bare, as it were? This seems to be the popular view of the aims and objectives of the EU - according to the single-minded eurosceptics in the UK, at least. The UK is fast becoming one of the poorer member states in the EU - not because of the EU, but despite it. A great shame when the UK could have been a dynamic and committed member of the EU, rather than just a rather weak, whining embarrassment as it is currently perceived as being throughout Europe (not just the EU).
You don't like EU ? You can leave EU ! Simple !!!
EU is not a prison; you stay in EU if you want.
If you don't want stay in EU, you can't leave EU. Sorry !!! It,s a mistake. This is the opinion of Cameron: a mistake, indeed.
Nobody in the EU is forcing Britain to stay. Absolutely NOBODY! So, if Britain is not happy, Britain must leave, go, say bye, adios, etc., is what I say.
If Cameron continues with his bellicose attitude towards the EU, he will soon be writing Britain's orbituary.
Why is it that the Tories are willing to cut their noses to spite their faces?
The greatest success of the post war world in Europe is now being pilloried by a small number of apoplectic people and its about time that people in support of the EU raise their voices either in the form of an organised campaign or individually putting forward a rational view of how this organisation can be developed to the benefit of all Europeans including the British.
Rod Wright
The greatest success after WWII was democracy, not EU. It appears that you have a problem with that?
And who precisely is it that accuses Mr Cameron of "pandering" to the "eurosceptic wing" in his party. My understanding at present is that, on all available data analysis, the EU is about as popular amongst the British electorate as a dolphin sandwich at a Greenpeace Christmas party. In a democracy the majority are, perhaps sadly, the ones who get "pandered" to. Now the Lisbon treaty is ratified there is no point in having a referendum on it. Most British people would happily support a fundamental reform of it, and not before time.
"Keeping France up, Germany down, and America out" was not that the original aim of the EU? Where precisely do we fit in at all?
Trying to incinuate, that we are some global power on our own, that everyone listens to. Sorry, it's just a myth.
We aren't even one of the top 3 biggest economies in the EU. Let alone the world. In regards to paying money into the EU, we aren't in the top 3 either.
Anyone alive in 1972 will remember us basically begging to be allowed into the group, after being isloated after the fall of the empire. To get access to the common market trading that was going on.
Henry Kissinger commented that he only called the UK, "to leave messages for the rest of Europe, as the europe doesn't have a telephone number". Every US president has stated that much of our ongoing solidarity and trade is built on us being an EU influence.
The Frenchman is completely and utterly right. The tories have been posuturing on the subject for decades, without doing anything but sign treaties, and entrench ourselves further - in and out of power.
Cameron, Major, Blair, Thatcher, Wilson, Brown all have little sceptic pockets of MPs and voters, that they need to keep happy.
And this comes in the form of posturing on the fence for years, without doing anything.
Seriously, if you actually read about the amount of our economy that is based on EU trade and overseas investment - the type of investment that has turned our country from a nation of shopkeepers, to more of a metropolis in the last 30 years since we joined.
Some may long for the days when they bought their bacon from a butcher, and spent weekends making jam - yada yada yada.
That's in the past. Get over it. Politics and business is sink or swim. Survivial of the fittest. The USA, China, Russia aren't going to let us just idle along, sticking to nationalistic "principles".
Russia, Norway, Sweden get away with it as they have half the planets lead, iron ore, mineral, tin reserves on their soil. They are legitimately "soverign" as they need no one.
When your a country of no natural industry, no natural resource, with massive local unemployment, and who relies nearly entirely on overseas investment and trade - I'm really sorry, but you just have to go with where business takes you.
And the completely obvious obvious fact is the point that business is going completely global. China, India, Russia, America are beggining to dominate markets, and ruin UK industry.
So you can either choose to be part of a collective super power, which allows the country to punch way above it's weight in business.
Or be some poor, jobless, jumped up little nationalist, shouting from the sidelines about "rule britannia" and how we won a war about 70 years ago
"Some of you people live on some idelogical little dream world, where everyone lives in villages, drives Morris Minors, and spends weekends making cider, and dancing around Maypoles.
Trying to incinuate, that we are some global power on our own, that everyone listens to. Sorry, it's just a myth."
...And...
"Or be some poor, jobless, jumped up little nationalist, shouting from the sidelines about "rule britannia" and how we won a war about 70 years ago"
This is a typical response to those who have genuine and legitimate concerns about the democratic nature of the process which is now going on.
Whether or not the 'EU' is the 'way forward' is irrelevent: we've been given no damned say in whichever direction we're going!
Being angry and frustrated about it is *not* the same as being some dewy-eyed romanticist with golden visions of some Tolkeinesque Merrie Englande.
Take the piss all you like, you're completely missing the point that many of us are making: that what's going on is being foisted upon us in a spectacularly undemocratic way, that we've been promised referendums by various parties and had none.
When challenged we just get the usual bilge back: Europe is the way forward, it's the future, if you don't like it you're a petty Little Englander, it's too complex for you to understand and other such crap.
The media hasn't helped either. All we get from them is the fact that various political figures have argued over the issue and insulted each other. Great. That really helps.
What we're left with is an unaccountable, corporatist pseudo-democracy. Laws are made by an unelected EU Commission, and amendments can only be recommended, not enforced, by our elected MEPs.
In other words, laws are being passed that affect our lives, and we have no say in the matter.
This is a far cry from the pristine, noble and wise, Star Trek-style global beacon of democracy promised by EU proponents.
Moving closer with the EU may be the least-worst option in terms of what's available, but for f***s sake let the people have more of a say in the matter.
Great Britain has never been in such danger since the battle of Britain and all the Conservative party has to offer is Donkey David with his bend over policies.
UKIP.
When IPSOS MORI comes out in a couple of days the Tories will not have lost anything.
This is a classical example of the top down roll out of an EU intitive. For a long time now, I have struggled with this approach and believe that there should be more of a bottom up approach for EU initiatives. To be able to express my thoughts in regards to such an apporach, over the last few days I compiled a film. I would like to invite readers of the economist to view this film, which can be accessed via below link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XcFwFB2
The other members will not agree to any 'repatriation of powers' whatever that means and the stark choice is play with the team or leave. It is dishonest of them to pretend that there are any other real alternatives. They should not pander to the loony right wing. If such people want to vote for the nutters in the BNP and UKIP let them, and let them see the sort of people they will let into politics.
The nature of their fellow travelers may persuade them that their anti Europe feelings are misplaced.
It scares me to death some of the powers they wish to repatriate. Workers rights under the social chapter will go, and employees will suffer. And that will be just the start. The same nasty Tories will lord it over us as the yalways do.
The EU is a beacon of light compared with these people. We vote them into office at our peril.
http://www.indemgroup.eu/fileadmin/user