Voters turn on main parties
Poll shows 80% want independent candidates to challenge 'unethical' MPs at ballot box
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Independent Minds
Voters are clamouring for independent candidates to challenge MPs caught up in the Commons expenses scandal at the next election.
A survey published today discloses that almost 80 per cent of electors believe non-party candidates should stand against MPs caught behaving "unethically". More than half of voters – 53 per cent – said they would "seriously consider" voting for an independent and 63 per cent believed the presence of more independent backbenchers in the Commons would strengthen democracy. Three Tory backbenchers have said they will not contest the next election and several Labour MPs are expected to be barred from standing again. However, dozens of MPs accused of milking the expenses system will face the voters in the election which is likely to take place next spring.
The ComRes survey suggests they could be in danger of losing their seats to unaligned candidates who manage to capture the public mood of anger at MPs. The poll found that 78 per cent of people wanted independents to stand against MPs who had submitted "unethical" claims.
The scandal took a fresh twist last night when the whistleblower who passed the information on to The Daily Telegraph was revealed as John Wick, a former SAS officer. Mr Wick claims he was passed the data by a source in the Commons, but refused to reveal whether he had been paid by the paper.
Yesterday, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, said that the systematic humiliation" of MPs was threatening Britain's democracy. Dr Williams said the issues raised by the expenses scandal were grave, but that "many will now be wondering whether the point has not been adequately made: the continuing systematic humiliation of politicians itself threatens to carry a heavy price in terms of our ability to salvage some confidence in our democracy".
Ian Gibson, the Labour MP who claimed expenses on a flat where his daughter was living, was referred to the party's "star chamber" yesterday, which will decide whether he should be deselected as a candidate. He has said he is ready to stand down in Norwich North if voters want him to quit.
Celebrities could mount high-profile challenges to sitting MPs. Esther Rantzen, the television presenter, has said she would be "80 per cent certain" to stand against Labour's Margaret Moran, who claimed £22,500 for treating dry rot at a home 100 miles from her Luton South constituency while Lynn Faulds Wood, the television consumer campaigner, said she is considering running for a parliamentary seat.
Phillip Oppenheim, a former Tory minister, is threatening to try to unseat the Tory Andrew MacKay, who resigned as David Cameron's parliamentary aide over his "unacceptable" claims.
Independents won two of the 646 parliamentary seats at the last election – Richard Taylor in Wyre Forest and Dai Davies in Blaenau Gwent. Dr Taylor, who has held his Worcestershire constituency since 2001, said he was delighted at the upsurge of support for independents.
He is preparing an advice booklet for people considering standing for Parliament and said: "We need a government with a small majority. If you had an appreciable number of independents, it would keep ministers on their toes because no one knows which way we are going to vote."
Martin Bell, who served as an anti-sleaze MP between 1997 and 2001 after ousting Tory Neil Hamilton, said the expenses furore had made the ground more fertile for independents. He has refused to rule out standing against cabinet minister Hazel Blears at the election and said: "It's always hard to stand against the main political parties. There are no inherited or traditional votes – no one votes for you because their grandfather did."
Jonathan Bartley, from think-tank Ekklesia, which commissioned the ComRes survey, said: "We see the growth in independents as part of a wider process to break open the political system." The Jury Team, an umbrella group for independents, said it aimed to field a candidate in every constituency at the general election. It already has a full slate of candidates in place for next month's European elections.
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Quote "the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, said that the "systematic humiliation" of MP's was threatening Britain's democracy. Dr Williams said the issues raised by the expenses scandal were grave, but that "many will now be wondering whether the point has not been adequately made: the continuing systematic humiliation of politicians itself threatens to carry a heavy price in terms of our ability to salvage some confidence in our democracy".
So if I am not mistaken, he is saying that WE are responsibly for running "democracy" into the ground and not those involved in the present expenses debacle?? What democracy can he be on about?
Then>>>
" many will be wondering if the point has not been adequately made"? not for me it hasn't I don't know about you? when those deemed in, to use a word they seem very fond of, 'Error' are booted out and loose all claim to the cash cow they have been used to in the past, I will be somewhat pacified. these statements by the arch bishop beggar belief.
I feel so very sorry for all those affected by the expenses issue, don't you? I wonder when it will dawn on their selfish, mean little minds that they have asked for all they are getting and more, it's their own stupid fault and no one else's. both those that have put forward morally challenged claims and others for simply looking on whilst sucking their thumbs.
I am sickened day after day with their constant squirming & wriggling, voicing their mealy mouthed excuses for their so called "Errors" "Mistakes" & " Accounting errors" good lord, when will it sink into their pathetically challenged gray matter that what they are guilty of borders on the criminal as it is, being protected by those self made rules, with out those, they would be guilty of criminal activity, fraud being one of them for their dodgy mortgage claims. obtaining money under false pretenses, and in some cases one would have difficulty in not actually using the word "Theft"
It is not the media that is bringing down democracy, but bent MPs. Parliament has been turned into s sick pantomime, with duck ponds, moats and now even a good old fashioned chimney sweep has joined the ever growing cast. Tory Jonathon Djanolgy, whose personal fortune is something like three hundred million pounds, has charged us for having three of his chimneys swept. Some people have more neck than a giraffe.
No, we have not had the point made, we have yet to see what is at the bottom of this reeking cesspit, then, and only then will the point possibly have been made. Til then, it would be best if DrWilliams kept his nose out.
Hilarious - calls are made by Rowan Williams & others to let the rest of the gang off the hook because they fear "damage to democracy". I've got some news for these individuals - the damage has already been done, democracy has already been betrayed by those apponted by the public to uphold the principle. No, this mess deserves the reaction that it has received from the public, & why should anybody suppose that electing independent MPs would somehow "damage democracy"? Independent MPs are independent of the two main parties, that's all, & the two main parties are moribund, defunct in their present form. I say bring on the independents - let us rebuild integrity. let us take that "leap of faith"
An excellent posting Sir, which also adequately sums up my sentiments.
When you think of how hard we all have to work to keep our families in a home,pay exorbitant taxes,and make some kind of pleasantness out of this life,then it is particularly sickening when these so-called politicians bleat about how hard done to they are.
Most of these parasites are all ready well heeled,before they start raping the financial system.
Its a case of much wants more.
And as for this Williams character-well I'm starting to think that he's also part of this cosy little set up
In fact-its rather like the middle ages with the Barons snuggling up to the church,with its 'mutual' benefits.
Anyone who can not see what is the sub text of this must be pretty dim.
It appears to me that the political class view the average citizen as peasants-and appear to excecise the arbitary perogative of doing what the want,when they want,to who they want and expect the sort of pay package of a top company director,or doctor.
They are referring to themselves as proffessionals-what an absolute insult to anyone who has had to train to be something useful.
Proffessionals?
Proffessional liars,squanderers,charletans,and bums.
I am beginning to think as time passes, whilst observing this pathetically inadequate charade being enacted by the leaders of the main parties that nothing less than co-ordinated voter power in the streets is going to kick them into some kind of direct action, the problem being of course that direct action would likely include the police vis the public and not as it should be, the Met, Scotland Yard and other constabularies throughout the land, conducting a thorough & searching investigation into the present expense situation, it also occurs to me the other serious issues of misconduct may come to light considering the seemingly corrupt & mentally challenged personalities these folk seem to have.
Perhaps the thorough and searching investigation into the much vaunted green book and its authors might be in order for starters?
As the days roll by, talk about hanging on in there until the bitter end.
Credit has been given to Cameron for taking the initiative, how so? it follows he had to be one of the thumb suckers I spoke of in the original post, standing around, watching all this take place in the past? if not, it speaks for itself doesn't it? hence the blundering rhetoric of the past couple of weeks. If he were to openly claim that he was not aware of it, he would surely be signing his own political death warrant wouldn't he? for if he was the leader his words are designed to make us think he might be, I would have thought he should have made it his business to know what his minions were up to and possibly have got in there to make some kind of effort at getting the problem sorted out, at least in his own party? after all, what a vote winner that would have been in the next G/E. At least Brown is acting true to form, being perceived to be a bit dim in the affairs of parliament & only concerned with his own ambition of being and remaining PM.
One thing that occurs to me in all this is the fact that many good and true politicians that are long dead would be turning over in their graves if they could only see the utter mess and corrupt scandal that our present crop of, to use your comment here,"Quote; Professional liars, squanderer's, charlatans, and bums." are making of running our country...what an awfully humiliating legacy?
I am sickened right through to my bones by all of this. Gradually as time goes on, I am beginning to think that the BNP might just have something to offer the country, & that just isn't my way of thinking at all. I feel I am being forced into a corner.
Concerning positive police action, a little story out of my long gone past comes to mind, in the late 60's, I recall giving a guy thumbing on the roadside, a lift as I made my way home after work, after he had got into my vehicle, I barley had time to select a gear before a police car dived in front and behind of me preventing me for going anywhere, my vehicle door was snatched open and I was handcuffed to the steering wheel, my new passenger was dragged out of the vehicle and the contents of a duffel bag he was carrying was dumped on the roadside, it contained some folded up lengths of copper tubing. We were both arrested and I was locked up for three days, the arrest happening on a Monday evening and my court appearance was on the following Thursday. I was fed on cold bacon sandwiches and cold tea, to then appear in court being accused of adding and abetting this guy dispose of his ill gotten gains, my solicitor made mincemeat of their case, using the argument, would a bus driver, if he had picked up my passenger have been treated in the same way? never the less, it was an example of how the police can kick into action if they wish to do so... makes one wonder about the reasons they have for holding back now?
I think everyone else has said it all in the above comments.
I shall be voting independent if there is a candidate to vote for. I might even stand myself as it shouldn't be too difficult to get votes away from our sitting mp with all this going on. He does strange things like stay at home and get his secretary to read the gist of letters from constituents to him over the phone, which he then gives her the gist of the answer to, and she writes the replies for him. He's rubbish - we caught him out when his reply bore no resemblence to the letter that had been written to him. Both times we've had dealings with him he's been useless so we can't be the only ones with 100% dissatisfaction rating.
I hope there's a choice, there wasn't in the last election.
Answer they do not want Reform.
It is quite obvious that whichever party gets in will never pass the radical reforms needed; they are cushie for 5 years and hope for more.
The only way to get Reform is to force it before a different crowd take office. Not suffle the same old pack.
The present way run by the Political Parties and their foot-ball mob of blind supporters who bay for their own, but not the democratic public good is at the root of much of the trouble as are the 'safe seats'. We need Proportional Representation NOW.
Their constant denials are threatening our democracy. Each of them (notwithstanding the MP's who haven't committed fraud) have the path to partial redemption open to them and the chance to do the 'right honorable' thing- stand down NOW!
indeed, but some people with the brains of a donkey HAVE been elected!
I will never again vote for any mainstream party candidate. Even the even tempered friends I have are absolutely furious at the greed and sleaze and this is only what we know so far. What on earth is there that we don't know.
The archbishop of canterbury should climb back up his ivory tower and do what he does best - theorise.
All these comments in support of the swine who have rules over us and taken a "don't do as i do, do as i say" attitude are really just reinforcing the fact that they are far too removed from reality until it bites them on the arse.
They work for us not themselves and we need people with a concience and brain not just cunning for greed and self serving pruposes but to make our country a better place.
Whilst we are at it, we don't really need as many MP's and could probably cull them by a third as a reasonable start.
Was the fact that, I suggested the Establishment was closing ranks from attacks by the people who have become victims of its oppressive regime, responsible?
Or was it because I suggested, Parliament, The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams and The Independent sat on their hands, while Zionist forces massacred Palestinians for 22 days?
The Terrible Trinity:
Parliament: Deceit , Fraud and Duplicity
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams: Hypocrisy, Pusillanimity and Misguidedness.
The Independent: Censorship, Partisan and Disingenuous.
Perhaps the queen and the military will join them later?
It is essential that we have total transparancy in the matter of MPs expenses, and it is obviously only going to happen thanks to the Daily Telegraph.
Let us have a Duck Island song. It goes. The working class can kiss my bottom. I have got my expenses claim it at last.
I am surprise our none elected dictator Brown in his ineptness does not recruit the arrogance of Jonathan Ross for his special advisor?
It is the sheer pettiness. From bath plug Home Secretary Smith, 17 silk cushions Keith Vaz, two toilet seats Prescott and our Justice Minster Malik massage chair. Pure greed when our Home Secretary claims 88p for a bath plug and adult movies for he husband to watch, Would Keith Vaz really have bought 17 silk cushions if he was paying instead of the public. These claims also reveal that MPs do and claim for a lot of gardening. Is gardening essential to parliamentary duties?
Sleaze iso covering sleaze. Our Olympics Minister Jesse Jewel is now off the radar after here husband Mills was jailed in February, for perjury in the Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi case. New Labour Baroness Uddin who claimed 60,000 pounds on an empty property is also off the radar, like the New Labour Lords who wanted bribes to alter law.
The humiliation will take a long time to complete. More resignations and criminal cases are required.
Dr Rohan Williams may I remind you that arrogance, avarice and greed are not Christian values. Please do your job. Your suggestion that we go easy on these MPs is not helpful to our democracy.
I am wondering when the thieves will end up in prison. i suspect then i will consider the point to have been made
Rowan William has no street credibility. Nobody listens to or cares about the old ex-Druid's establishment-supporting opinions.
The Greens and UKIP will benefit from the tide of scum that has washed up around the other three major Parties. Nobody with a brain will or should vote for this lot of expenses scroungers.
Let's train our sights on Local Councils and the BBC next!
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla
Sorry about the headache, too much writing, have a rest in a dark room.
He is probably more concerned the house of Lords will be abolished where currently a cushy seat has his name on it.
The more votes that the smaller parties receive, the more likely we are to have a truly representative democracy.
Filling in my postal ballot papers yesterday for the EU elections, I was very interested to learn about the 'other' parties and there is plenty of choice;
British National Party
Christian Party
English Democrats
Jury Team
No2EU: Yes to Democracy
Pro Democracy: Libertas.eu
The Green Party
Socialist Labour Party
The Peace Party
The Roman Party. Avel
United Kingdom First
Most interesting was the Jury Team, acting as an umbrella group for independents - It would be nice to see parliament full of independent MP's who can vote without pressure of party whips.
What I'd really like to see, is a system of proportional representation in our own general elections so that parliament is made up of many of these.
Perhaps the days of the political party are on the wane.
It's a great time for change1
Convince your friends and family to vote. Remember every vote we cast cancels one of theirs. Not voting does not cancel one of theirs.
Go and vote on mass.
Remember it not only these expenses. It is also New Labour spin and sleaze.
This failed New Labour multiculturalism, political correctness gone mad, immigration out of control, our national assets sold to foreign ownership with the post office next in line. Ripped off on water and energy bills. A devastated economy and crime statistics manipulated.
With luck we should especially be able to wipe this failed New Labour experiment totally off the political map. They are even traitors to their own working class.
So vote and wipe them out,
For that matter, if there were say twenty Green, BNP, UKIP or independent MPs, does anyone seriously think that none of them would be sucked into this? (In the case of UKIP, some of their MEPs have already done worse). By all means vote for a fringe party, but do it because you believe in their policies or their ideology, not just because they aren't in parliament yet.
Time to deal with the expenses rules and move on, so we can talk about, oh, I don't know, the economic crisis, the climate crisis, national and global poverty, the continuing squeeze on world food supply, etc. etc.
I need to know I'm not going crazy!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d
Collin!
Fancy seeing YOU here! I'm just reading the paper online before going out to the park and you've posted exactly the same video, of a speech by holocaust denier DAvid Irvine, on every single article that I've looked at.
One would be trempted to think that you're not even reading the news articles, but are just posting the same comment on every page?
But the, accusing Nazi supporters of having a one size fits all approach to politics is a little unfair....actually, forget that, it's not unfair at all!
See you on the next page! X