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The Big Question: What would have happened if Henry VIII had obtained his divorce?

By Paul Vallely

Henry VIII: the King annulled his marriage to Catherine of Aragon and wed Anne Boleyn

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Henry VIII: the King annulled his marriage to Catherine of Aragon and wed Anne Boleyn

Why are we asking this now?

Because the Vatican has just announced that it will market 200 facsimile copies of the elaborately decorated parchment from 1530, which bore an appeal by English peers to Pope Clement VII asking for the annulment of the marriage of Henry VIII to Catherine of Aragon.

The document is key, historians said, to understanding the formation of the English national character. It marks, said Professor David Starkey in Rome yesterday, the most important event in English history. "This is the moment at which England ceases to be a normal European Catholic country and goes off on this strange path," he said, "that leads it to the Atlantic, to the New World, to Protestantism, to Euro-scepticism."

Why did Henry want a divorce in the first place?

It wasn't a divorce, it was an annulment. To cement an alliance with Europe's most powerful country, Spain, Henry's father, Henry VII, had arranged a marriage between Henry's elder brother Arthur and the daughter of the Spanish monarchs, Queen Isabella of Castile and King Ferdinand of Aragon. When Arthur died she was married off to Henry.

But by the end of the 1520s, Henry's wife, Catherine of Aragon, was in her forties and he was desperate for a son to secure the Tudor dynasty.

Henry applied to the Pope for an annulment of the marriage, on the grounds that it was not lawful in those days for someone to marry his brother's widow. Technically that was correct. And royal annulments had happened before: Louis XII of France had been granted one in 1499. But, by then, Catherine's nephew had become the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, and he did not want to see his aunt humiliated. So the Pope dilly-dallied.

What happened?

Henry fell in love with Anne Boleyn and by 1533 she was pregnant. He married her in secret. Meanwhile he had pushed through Parliament a series of Acts cutting back papal power and influence in England. Several months after the wedding he got the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer to unilaterally declare his first marriage invalid. Anne Boleyn was crowned queen a week later. A year later the Pope declared that Henry's second marriage was invalid.

Henry declared that the Pope no longer had authority in England and in 1534, Parliament passed an act that stated that Henry VIII was now the Head of "The Church of England". The Pope responded by excommunicating Henry. The king passed the Act of Supremacy. Those who would not swear allegiance to him as head of the Church were executed for treason. Then followed the Dissolution of the Monasteries, under which all the lands and possessions of Britain's religious orders were purloined by the king and his apparatchiks.

Wouldn't the reformation have happened anyway?

That was the myth peddled by the English establishment for centuries. The propaganda was that a corrupt and decaying Catholicism was replaced by a more morally pure and progressive Protestantism. But historians now challenge that view. They are led by Cambridge University's Eamon Duffy whose scholarly masterpiece, The Stripping of the Altars, was a meticulous study of the accounts, wills, primers, memoirs, rood screens, stained glass, joke-books and graffiti of the period.

What did this book show?

It showed beyond doubt that medieval Catholicism was in fact flourishing and much loved by the ordinary English people for whom it offered social and spiritual sustenance. Luther's Protestant reformation had taken no root.

"Very few people were remotely interested in ideas from Germany," said David Starkey. But "because Protestantism won and because history is written by the winners, the Protestant account of the Reformation triumphed". The Reformation in England was imposed from the top.

How was the Reformation imposed?

By a fierce centralist onslaught by the King and a small group of brutal, greedy, self-serving henchmen out for loot. Protestantism was imposed – through coercion, spying and disenfranchisement – by a cadre of political opportunists during just three decades of Henry's and then his daughter Elizabeth's reign.

Public resistance to Elizabeth's dismantling of the Catholic parish system persisted until the 1570s. And some Catholic customs and loyalties lingered until the beginning of the 17th century. However, by then, as Professor Duffy put it, England's Catholic inheritance became for the English people "a distant world, impossible for them to look back on as their own".

Wouldn't Protestantism have flourished anyway?

Probably not. Henry had persecuted English Protestants until the row over the annulment. But once his estrangement from Rome was clear, Protestants flooded into England. There was a big influx from France after the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in 1572 when a large group of wealthy and prominent Huguenots were slaughtered in Catholic Paris. There was also a steady wave of Protestant from the Low Countries after Spain began to assert its rule there. So Protestantism was a foreign import.

How did the move towards Protestantism manifest itself?

In 1536 Henry gave permission for an English translation of the Bible to be published in England, which was a very non-Catholic act for Rome was still hiding behind its Latin. Henry continued to regard himself to be a Catholic but by doing this he began to move the Church in the direction of Protestantism. From that point onward, the Church of England claimed itself to be both Catholic and Reformed (as distinct from just Protestant) a character which many proclaim to be its continuing compromising genius to this day. It was to be 100 years before the Protestants really showed their strength – by cutting off the head of the king in the Civil War.

Were it not for the annulment, as John Stuart Mill put it in his essay On Liberty, this country would almost certainly have followed the example of the majority of the Continent. "In Spain, Italy, Flanders, the Austrian empire," Mill wrote, "Protestantism was rooted out; and mostly likely would have been so in England, had Queen Mary [Henry VIII's first daughter] lived, or Queen Elizabeth died."

How would things have been different if England had remained Catholic?

"My offices might be in Rome and I might be writing in Latin," quipped Paul Handley, the editor of the Church Times, the leading Anglican newspaper, yesterday. "And what would have happened to the bolshy individualistic Englishman on which we base all our historical mythology?"

It would have been a unique Catholicism though, not fervent like the Mediterranean kind, but not separatist like the Catholism of France which is the product of a guillotine-crazed Revolution and a secularising Enlightenment. We might just be irreligious Catholics instead of irreligious Protestants. But the world may have lost something rather special.

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Comments

Dubious revisionism
[info]iunomoneta wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 12:18 am (UTC)
Protestantism was strong enough to take a grip of Scotland, its very probable that the same would have happened in England too. Henry's break with Rome wasn't that significant as he wasn't really a protestant, he was an Anglo-Catholic.
Did this really determine the national character?
[info]thejaffabadger wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 01:31 am (UTC)
I have to agree with earlier comment that there were aspects of Protestantism (especially the use of English language and bible) that appealed to some aspects of English society, though not the Cornish speakers who rebelled over an English bible they could not understand. My understanding is that most people were still catholic when Mary was crowned but she alienated them with the burnings of protestant martyrs. The change was solidified through events like Spanish Armada, Gunpowder Plot where Catholicism became identified with a threat to the state. Tragically this schism lead to the Protestant plantations in Ulster and remains unresolved. By disestablishing the Church of England and ending catholic exclusion from the line of succession England's constitution would reflect its contemporary reality: a multi-faith and multi-sceptical mixed society at ease with its diversity. Though I regret the whitewashing and iconoclasm of Edward IV, the English love of language followed on. We are now a nation of words rather than pictures.
Oopsy & second thoughts
[info]thejaffabadger wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 03:05 am (UTC)
Sorry, make that Edward VI not IV. Never type and eat pasta at the same time. 2 quick thoughts: prior to Luther were the Lollards who first translated the Bible and who were critical of some of the pomp and splendour of the RC Church. There was a proto-Protestant tendency in England separate to and distinct from Henry VIII's succession requirements. Subsequent to the Protectorate England has mellowed towards a sublime neglect of theology and theological extremism. The only great theological innovation in England since Pelagian heresy from Briton in the fifth century is Huxley's agnosticism. The idea that the truth is ultimately unknowable and therefore a matter of faith or doubt. That is a position that gives everyone space and respect. Try it, its England's own and while it doesnt end arguments like the C of E didnt end religious divisions, it does tend to settle everyone down a bit.
Re: Oopsy & second thoughts
[info]londontoleeds wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 07:01 am (UTC)
Thank you jaffabadger that is very interesting. I am led to wonder how we would have lost some great non-conformists like the Quakers who practise giving everyone space and respect with an oppeness and fearlessness that the Catholic church has been slow to embrace. Let alone the inclusion of women.
Profound social forces
[info]johncmullen1960 wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 07:27 am (UTC)
One of the main reasons that the pope refused an annulment was the growing conflict in England between the powerful church (huge landowner with its own courts and taxes) and the merchant classes (well represented in parliament) who were angry at the church for unfair economic competition (not paying taxes), "restrictive practices" of all sorts, and also corruption. This conflict was going to be played out one way or another. We have to be careful not to rely too much on questions of person and personality...
WE WOULD NOT CRY FOR THESE??????
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC)
Treasury 'Flat-Footed' Over Northern Rock An under-prepared Treasury was "caught flat-footed" by the run on mortgage lender Northern Rock in September 2007, MPs say today. The department's lack of readiness to deal with the failing bank - despite warning signs emerging as early as 2004 - is attacked by the Public Accounts Committee.
Steelmaker Corus To Cut 2,000. JobsSteelmaker. Corus is axing more than 2,000 jobs at plants in the north of England.
A Sky source said jobs would go from factories in Scunthorpe and Rotherham, with Rotherham expected to lose 1,000 positions. AND "Chase survived in part because hundreds of people prayed to Father Emil Kapaun to intercede on his behalf. It was absolutely a miracle." ? Paula Kear, Chase's mother
People in Colwich like to touch Chase Kear's arm or his shoulder with their fingers. Or they hug him. "Miracle Man," they say. "Let me touch the miracle." With anybody else in Colwich, this would be just talk. But it's not just talk to the Vatican.
Prompted in part by what the Kear family has said publicly, and partly by a preliminary investigation begun by the Catholic Diocese of Wichita, a Vatican investigator named Andrea Ambrosi will arrive from Italy in Wichita on Friday.
He will investigate on behalf of the church in Rome whether 20-year-old Chase Kear's survival qualifies as a miracle; whether he survived a severe head injury last year in part because his family and hundreds of friends successfully prayed thousands of prayers to the soul of Father Emil Kapaun, a U.S. Army chaplain from Pilsen, Kan., who died a hero in the Korean War.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
THE WITHCH THE WITCH THE WITCH THE WITCH THE WWWW
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 11:59 am (UTC)
Britons are among the biggest losers on the Forbes list.
Harry Potter writer JK Rowling remains on the billionaires' list with her $1bn (£725m) fortune unchanged from last year
Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson and Sir Philip Green both saw their fortunes slashed, it is suggested.
Microsoft founder Bill Gates regains his position as the world's richest man, with a personal fortune of $40bn (£29bn) - despite losing $18bn during the year
New York mayor Michael Bloomberg is the only person in the top 20 to see his wealth increase. His net worth went up by $4.5bn (£3.3bn)
Security forces in Moscow have broken up a gay march amid violent scenes.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla

WE DIE BUT ONCE NOT SEVEN TIMES LIKE THE CATS
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 12:27 pm (UTC)
Cheeky Monkey Urinates On Zambian President
A monkey has urinated on Zambian President Rupiah Banda as he spoke to journalists outside his State House offices.
Who says we have no Darwin who says we have no freedon of speech, who says Henry VIII had obtained his divorce?
ALL ARE TALKS NOTHING MORE just gossips like >> When South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford cheated on his wife, he also betrayed his top political adviser.
First lady Jenny Sanford told the world in a statement Wednesday that she had sent her husband packing nearly 15 years after she launched his political career.
Mark Sanford apologized to her and their four sons at a tearful press conference where he admitted a yearlong affair with a friend in Argentina whom he had visited on a secret trip. WHO SAYS "I will give this monkey for lunch to Mr Sata," he joked, referring to opposition leader Michael Sata, who Mr Banda defeated in last year's elections."Perhaps these are blessings," he said continuing his address amid laughter from the audience of journalists and diplomats.Who says It?s unlikely that a brief fall in currency and interest rates would cause an exodus
GEE I SAY PHEW PHEW AND PHEW..
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla



A geat Man
[info]ehross wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 01:08 pm (UTC)
For what ever reason Henrys driving the Catholics out of the UK made the world a far better place.
We could have experienced another Galileo episode thereby delaying the development of the world by hundreds/thousands of years.
The better question ....
[info]avraamjack wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 01:59 pm (UTC)
The better question is what if the King had acted like a King and said that I can have as many wives as I want at one time, polyamoury is now legal ....
Scotland's Protestantism
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 02:07 pm (UTC)
iunomoneta may I suggest a few basic works on Protestantism in Scotland. It was neither "home grown" or "home developed" (home meaning Scotland) but was the result of anger over French hegemony in Scot politics. The Reformation Parliament of 1560, which repudiated the pope's authority, forbade the celebration of the mass and approved a Protestant Confession of Faith, was made possible by a revolution against French hegemony under the regime of the regent Mary of Guise, who had governed Scotland in the name of her absent daughter Mary Queen of Scots (then also Queen of France). Try James A. Wylie's classic (1880) The History of Protestantism: Volume Third - Book Twenty-fourth. When Knox pushed his version of Presybteriansim in Scotland it was not well received and numerous attempts were made on his life. The Presbyterian church was forced upon the people--not adopted by or adapted to the people. Warfare over church lands and "livings" became common, but when the Presbyterian church took hold ruthlessly it engaged in a book burning and revisionist historical writing as history has long be a record of the winners.
All religions have started
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 02:15 pm (UTC)
as a grab for wealth and power--from the warrior bishops and other prelates from the Middle Ages through the Renaissance (especially with Pope Julius II leading his troops against those who refused to buckle under his regime). At the same time religion has denied and restricted dissent (from the Spanish Inquisition to the Council of Clerics and ayatollahs [archbishops] of Islamic Iran (a theocracy, neither a democracy nor a republic). Religions has cursed this planet and led to more abuse and misuse and torture and murder of people than any other force (even Adolf Hitler, in his Mein Kampf, noted that he was a good Christian and was working for the spread of the gospel, basing his "cleansing on Matthew 3:7 & 12:24: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited." -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922. And: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited." -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922.



America benefitted
[info]lasvegasrich wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 04:15 pm (UTC)
What is sad about this break, is that few Protestants or Catholics acted like Christians. Often carrying on wars, torture, and cruelty in every form. The good thing for America was that many of the victims, or those who didn't want to conform, fled to the American colonies, thereby populating my country. Continued cruelty to the Irish led to my ancestors on my mother's side to move here in the 1880s. My father's English ancestors came over around the same time, I don't know what their problem was.
Re: America benefitted
[info]ehross wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 07:07 pm (UTC)
without ethnic cleansing and slaughter of the Indians the US would be a far different place.
Re: America benefitted
[info]giordano_b wrote:
Friday, 26 June 2009 at 05:53 pm (UTC)
"What is sad about this break, is that few Protestants or Catholics acted like Christians. Often carrying on wars, torture, and cruelty in every form."

I thought carrying on wars, torture and cruelty was what Christianity (and indeed religion) was all about. From Roman times through the Inquisition, the colonisation of the New World, Oliver Cromwell, George W Bush and Abu Ghraib etc. etc.


If the marriage had been annulled, I think England would still have had a civil war, or a revolution, sooner or later. Maybe we'd be a republic like France. Quite possibly the Union with Scotland would never have happened and we wouldn't all be unhappily ruled by a Scottish PM.

The things that would not have happaned
[info]newsreader60 wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 05:01 pm (UTC)
It is hard to tell what would have happaned if Henry VIII did not write the letter asking for annulment. It is easier, however, to speculate what would not have happaned. There would not have been the experience of centuries-long sectarian violence, suffering and hatred. All those lives, families and hopes and aspirations destroyed (including the five ex-wives'), because of a king's wish for a male heir and a dynati. And the irony is that at the end, he did not really have what he hoped for anyway.

Reform would have happaned within the church, with or without the politically charged reformation (in a feudalistic society the religion of the people was determined by the religion of the rulers). There is absolutely no proof to the claims that the special English character would not have shaped a unique Catholic Church of England, just as the Spanish, french, Italian, Polish or German Catholic Churcheas are unique and express their respective national characters.

Re: The things that would not have happaned
[info]ehross wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 07:09 pm (UTC)
The Catholic church still does not believe in separation of church and state.
foreign import?
[info]1995blaze wrote:
Thursday, 25 June 2009 at 05:43 pm (UTC)
"So Protestantism was a foreign import" . . . and Catholicism wasn't?
Writers of history
[info]athenaowl wrote:
Friday, 26 June 2009 at 02:18 am (UTC)
A minor cavil. David Starkey [says] "because Protestantism won and because history is written by the winners, the Protestant account of the Reformation triumphed".

History is not always written by the winners. Thucydides wrote the "Peloponnesian War" about the war between the Spartan League and the Athenian League, and Xenophon completed it. Athens was defeated - both Thucydides and Xenophon were Athenians.
A major part of the Bible is the history of the Jews - who were defeated finally by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in 135 A.D. and even had the name of their land Judea changed to "Palestina" by Hadrian in order to forever eradicate all memory of Judea and the Jews. ("Palestine" then became synonymous with "land of the Jews" or "the Holy Land," and "Palestinian" became synonymous with "Jew," which is why the Zionists wanted the "Palestine Mandate.") The Jews were not the winners!
The histories of many countries that have been defeated are written by historians from those countries; e.g., French history after the Franco-Prussian war, German history during the twentieth century, etc.
Catholic Britain
[info]auntyeunice wrote:
Friday, 26 June 2009 at 10:12 am (UTC)
What if we were still a Roaman Catholic Church? Perhaps it might not be a bad thing. Father Blair would be taking Gordy Broon's confession and he would be spending so much time making contrition he wouldn't be able to mess the country up so much. The Archbishop of Canterbury would have to confine his statements to what the bible, or his boss says, not what the PC brigade think.
But there again with the advent of the printing press and the improvement in literacy people could pick up a cheap bible and read it and decide for themselves whether the Vatican has it right or not.
Funnily enough the only new places of worship I see being built where I live aren't Roman Catholic but Mosques and churches where the Gospel is preached not doctrine.
Hey Ho this isn't history though, and we have allowed ourselves to be pushed into the last and dying stages of democracy with the EU and even it is trying to bribe the Church with a seat at the top table, more fat Bishops. When the elite have their boot back on our necks where it surely should be after a short respite, we won't even have a free church to fall back on for succour.
Could Elizabeth I have married Mary's widower?
[info]thejaffabadger wrote:
Friday, 26 June 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
This counter-factual has bounced around my brain all day. If the annulment was granted Cardinal Wolsey would have survived as Chancellor a little longer, delaying Thomas Cromwell's chancellorship. Henry VIII's other motive to become supreme head of the Church in England was financial (ie grabbing monastic lands) and that would have remained. Henry VIII's theological ambivalence (not to mention his parenting skills) was reflected in his children being ardently catholic (Mary) ardently protestant (EdwardVI, but if he had been educated differently who knows, he was a teen when he acceded to the throne) and pragmatically protestant (ElizabethI). Theologically Henry himself was initially anti-protestant earning the Defender of the Faith title for opposing Lutheranism, and he restored both Mary and Elizabeth to the succession just before his death. Catholicsm was restored under Mary and when she died her widower Phillip II of Spain offered to marry Elizabeth. Had she been catholic herself would ElizabethI have accepted him? Assuming she turns him down (I don't know if there is a biblical injuction against marrying your dead half-sister's husband like there is with your brother's wife) but remains catholic would there have been the Papal blessing for her removal that spurred on the Armada? So it seems feasible to me that England could have remained catholic if the annulment was granted till Elizabeth's death. But assuming a catholic ElizabethI was like the protestant ElizabethI and heirless, would she have named James Stuart (son of a catholic but raised as a protestant in Scotland) as her sucessor? If not him then who else? It was JamesI's failure to grant catholic toleration that lead to the gunpowder plot. Once you have the combination of the major external and internal threats to England being catholic and a protestant king surely protestantism, perhaps a calvinist variety, again spreads? So would not protestantism merely have been delayed?
There is one comment about the RC Church suppressing science but Copernicus and Galileo were both catholics who merely proposed the earth revolves around the sun. They were not questioning any other catholic orthodoxy. Scientific method developed in both catholic and protestant Europe and Charles II took a keen interest and founded the Royal Society despite having catholic sympathies and converting on his deathbed. Scientific theory is currently disputed by both protestant fundamentalists and some catholics, as well as other faiths. I don't think its right to assume Catholicism equates to backwardness and protestantism to progress (except in matters of contraception). Its surely time that the continuing and renewed catholic tradition in Britain was accepted and celebrated (imagine no Greene no Waugh, no Polish delis) and some vestiges of protestant narrowness questioned (like the treatment of the Romanians in Belfast by Unionist protestant young men. But as LondontoLeeds points out Catholicism is slow to adapt to the modern freedom of women. I don't like protestant triumphalism (especially in Ulster when they march through catholic areas) but I'm still on the whole glad that ElizabethI turned PhillipII down. If only ElizabethII had turned Phillip down as well :)
"Writers of History" and Hadrian's Palestine
[info]storybrown wrote:
Tuesday, 7 July 2009 at 06:49 pm (UTC)
As an Athenian owl and reader of Thucydides, "athenaowl" should know that Hadrian did not invent "Palestine"
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As an Athenian owl and reader of Thucydides, "athenaowl" should know that Hadrian did not invent "Palestine" <in order to forever eradicate all memory of Judea and the Jews,> etc. Herodotus described "Palestine" 500 years before Hadrian, and he never mentions Judea or Jews (Persian Wars, 3.5, 7.89, etc.) Rather, one translation gives: "These [Levantine] Phoenicians dwelt in ancient time, as they themselves report, upon the Erythraian [Red] Sea, and thence they passed over and dwell in the country along the seacoast of Syria; and this part of Syria and all as far as Egypt is called Palestine."

Lest we forget.

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