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Brazil rocked by abortion for 9-year-old rape victim

Church excommunicates mother and doctors – but not accused rapist

By Guy Adams in Los Angeles

Brazilian demonstrators hold an anti-abortion march in Brasilia

REUTERS

Brazilian demonstrators hold an anti-abortion march in Brasilia

Declaring that "life must always be protected", a senior Vatican cleric has defended the Catholic Church's decision to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old rape victim who had a life-saving abortion in Brazil.

Cardinal Giovanni Batista Re, who heads the Pontifical Commission for Latin America, told reporters that although the girl fell pregnant after apparently being abused by her stepfather, her twins had, "the right to live, and could not be eliminated".

In an interview with the Italian newspaper, La Stampa, the cardinal added: "It is a sad case but the real problem is that the twins conceived were two innocent persons. Life must always be protected."

Police believe the girl was sexually assaulted for years by her stepfather, possibly since she was six. That she was four months pregnant with twins emerged only after she was taken to hospital complaining of severe stomach pains.

The controversy represents a PR nightmare for the Vatican. The unnamed girl's mother and doctors were excommunicated for agreeing to Wednesday's emergency abortion yet the Church has not taken formal steps against the stepfather, who is in custody. Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed "a heinous crime", the Church took the view that "the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious".

The case has set off fierce debate in Brazil, where abortion is permitted only in cases of rape or a medical emergency. Brazil is one of the most populous Catholic countries, but conservative attitudes in rural areas are strongly at odds with the relatively progressive public view of abortion in major cities.

Even the President, Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva, has waded into the row. "As a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude," he said "The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old. In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church."

One of the doctors involved in the abortion, Rivaldo Albuquerque, has raised the prospect of public clashes at his local church, telling Globo, the nation's main TV network, that he would keep going to mass there, regardless of the archbishop's order. The young girl at the centre of the case escaped excommunication only because she is still a child in the eyes of Church authorities. The stepfather, who is 23, was arrested last week, apparently trying to escape to another region of the country. Police say he is also suspected of abusing the girl's handicapped 14-year-old sister. He is in protective custody, and if convicted faces up to 15 years in prison.

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I'd like to get that Bishop's Mitre
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 12:20 am (UTC)
and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

This man is a disgrace to the Church, but he's had the official blessing of some highly-placed Cardinals in the Vatican.

No wonder the Catholic Church is utterly despised and rejected. What SCUM they truly are!!!
[info]colin7 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 12:54 am (UTC)
In this highly scientific world that we all share, how much longer do we have to put up with the superstitious ravings of the religiously deluded? And why do we teach our children that there is a God ? When as far as we know there are no gods and never were. No Apollo. no Thor, no Rama, no Allah, no gods at all. All are myths from the infancy of our species, and have no connection to reality and it's time we got real and recognized that.
[info]ejh16 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 10:38 am (UTC)
Insisting there are no gods is just as arrogant as insisting that gods do exist. That lack of arrogance keeps me one step short of atheism, but, basically, I agree with this colin7.

All this religious nonsense does far more harm than good. We'd be much better off without it.

I am tired of feeling the pressure to respect other people "faiths", etc. If we encounter a member of a cult like Aum Shinrikyo or the Unitarians we can comfortably blow them off, but if they are part of one of the larger and more socially acceptable cults like the Catholic church we are supposed to pretend that the nonsense they spew is reasonable and must be "respected". Tiresome.

http://theunpeople.blogspot.com/
(no subject) - [info]00simian - Monday, 9 March 2009 at 04:16 pm (UTC) Expand
this article
[info]mitchellnbeard wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 12:55 am (UTC)
Why does the Church have to fight this constant, and doomed, rearguard action against the modern world at every opportunity? If it does not do something about this hopeless stance, and soon, it will eventually write itself out of the script.
And just where is the compassion?
[info]caradog139 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 01:38 am (UTC)

It seems to me that roman catholicism - as portrayed in this appalling case and in the vast number of others involving child abuse in many countries - is antithetical to the central message which most people with the slightest knowledge of christianity have: it comprises forgiveness, compassion and understanding.

Thus to argue, as roman catholic authorities do, though the evidence clearly contradicts them, that it somehow represents the one 'true christian church' is a complete nonsense. What right has one nation-state which the Vatican is, to dictate terms to the citizens of another? Oh I forgot, the vestiges of the 'holy' roman empire remain intact thanks to a 20th century Facist dictator!

Allowing these patriarchal and antedeluvian attitudes to pervade a modern nation is equally clearly an anathema, no more so then selectively quoting 'god's law' as the basis for how we should properly conduct ourselves vis a vis others.
[info]slyfas wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 01:44 am (UTC)
What does this story tells us about the Catholic church? It is a guild ruled by an insensitive bunch of crooks who are ready to close their eyes to heinous crimes like the rape of a 9-year old girl, colluding in the Shoa, supervised the destruction of Indians in Latin America, stole lots of property by selling indulgence etc. What a shame!

Please let it be communicated to the Archbishop of Pernambuco and the Pope that I stand by what I said and wished to be excommunicated on a fast track. Also, they should know that besides common sense which favours this abortion, the pelvic of a 9-year old girl is not yet developed to be able to withstand the safe delivery of twins. Or what are their plans? That the girl should be sliced open in a caesarean operation?

These idiots are bunch of frustrated fools who have lost all realities with life. The fact that they did not see anything wrong in the fellow who raped an innocent girl turns my stomach. Instead, they think it is appropriate to excommunicate the doctor and the girl's mother. By the way, what will they lose if they are excommunicated? Nothing!

As an aside, the rapist and his 'understanding' Archbishop should both be castrated in the public square so that they can understand how repugnant we (normal people) truly are.
Cardinal Giovanni Batista RE
[info]erastenes wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC)
Trying to force a 9 year old to deliver twins?
The Lord must have defecated into his brain case.
[info]keltikos wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 02:37 am (UTC)
This article would have benefited from the inclusion, by its author, of a statement of the teachings of the Catholic Church on the matter of abortion. This is a poor piece of journalism. The position of the Catholic Church is that where the life of the mother is at risk, as a result of a pregnancy, the life of the mother must take priority. I regret that the failure of the article to make this clear, has resulted in some extremely intemperate and frankly quite disturbing comments being posted. No doubt they will be removed eventually by the moderator. However I do think that the comments section could really benefit from the addition of a facility where offensive material could be at least flagged to the moderator by readers. I really don't want to find myself reading a comment thread where religions can be referred to as "scum" and where posters can call for the public castrations of individuals.
Oh really?
[info]erastenes wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 03:16 am (UTC)
"The position of the Catholic Church is that where the life of the mother is at risk, as a result of a pregnancy, the life of the mother must take priority."

Now, if that were true, there wouldn't have been any need to excommunicate the mother and the doctor. Unless you think delivering twins by a 9 year old is a risk free endeavor.
Sorry, they missed the memo... - [info]zahradelaplata - Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:24 am (UTC) Expand
SCUM - [info]1stinkyfish - Wednesday, 15 April 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: SCUM - [info]arthur_ide - Thursday, 16 April 2009 at 10:19 pm (UTC) Expand
Where was god?
[info]bulawayobob wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 03:09 am (UTC)
Where was god when the step-father was abusing the girl? Why did god remain so silent about the abuse?
Through god's silence, can one infer that he/she/it approved of the abuse?
What an omnipotent idiot god is, if there is such a thing.
Re: Where was god?
[info]drmagyar wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 03:33 am (UTC)
Everyone knows there are no gods. They don't even live their lives as if there was gods.

Humans really are completely nuts.
In their mercy
[info]tovasco wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 04:46 am (UTC)
Probably offer the step father a job as a priest, he seems to have the right qualifications.
Re: In their mercy
[info]happyhorse2 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC)
Well said - and how true, I agree what a lot of scum this particularly nasty religion contains.
killing an invader
[info]andyod wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 05:01 am (UTC)
It seems to me that those(unborn fetus) who were conceived without permission(rape) are in fact invaders of the parent's body and have no right to be there(parallel with invasion of Iraq). While they are innocent they are collateral damage,victims of a conflict not of their making.The sperm invaded the body and took refuge in the womb where it violated the ovaries without the female's permission.Hence the woman has a right to abort the resulting fruit of such illegal union.While we may look sadly at the death of the fetus we cannot criminalize the act of the mother in aborting it.She surely has the right of aborting invaders of her body.
A fetus is not considered a person hence is not baptized except conditionally since nobody knows when the soul enters to body.
Re: killing an invader
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at 12:23 am (UTC)
Not even in the Medieval church was an unborn considered to have a salvagable soul until it was removed from the womb, and then Aquinas and others argued that it went to a place near purgatory to suffer for the sins its parents committed. The church has long been on the fringes of lunacy, but the cardinal archbishop of Brasil has gone over the line and exposed his own mental weakness.

Only a woman has the right to determine the destiny of her own particular body and its cells and cell formation--and if she elects to discontinue fetal cell fetal development it is her right--not the choice of any man. It is not a baby. It is a choice--one that is up to the woman carrying the evolving matter.
[info]nounou_au wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 05:15 am (UTC)
I congratulate the Mother of the child and the medical staff for taking what was the correct and only choice for the young girl. I hope that this child will be given the support she rightly deserves in her healing process.
One can only hope that the Catholic Church and Vatican will come to its senses (I won't hold my breath on that). It beggars belief that in this elightened age an institution like the Catholic Church can still have such outdated ideas. I am particularly appauled by their attitude to the step father. However, I guess it demonstrates the attitudes of many in the heirarchy of the Catholic Church who still want to see females be they 9 or 90 under the dominance of men. After all the Vatican has done little if anything to resolve the issue of Priests and documented child abuse.
Shame on you the Vatican !
Religions Of The World
[info]usaconcerned wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 05:27 am (UTC)
Here is an interesting look at many Religions of the world.
http://www.uaff.us/religion.htm
Let me ask each of you some questions: What religion are you? A Muslim? A Catholic? A Christian? A Jew?.......Were you born a Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew, or a Christian? Or did you choose that religion for yourself at some point after long and painful deliberation and intense study of all religions in order to make the wisest choice for yourself? Almost all people are not born a Muslim, a Catholic, or a Christian, but born to Muslim parents, Christian parents, Catholic parents and so on..... So if you were born in India you might be a Hindu, if you were born in Italy you might be a Catholic, if you were born in Iran you might be a Muslim and if you were born in the USA you might be a Christian. So where you were born most likely dictates what religion you will belong to, and also what religion your parents belong to effects these outcomes. What does this tell you? Well it tells me allot!
Re: Religions Of The World
[info]paul999 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 12:11 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure what point your making. I was born C of E but I don't believe in God. I was born in England so I speak English and eat ham, if I had been born in France I would be speaking French and eating jambon. We are products of our environment and religion is one of those environmental variables.

This article is about the hypocrisy of a religion that would rather have people catch AIDS than wear a piece of rubber and excommunicate the doctors who perform an abortion on a 9 year old rather than excommunicating the rapist. Sickening doesn't even begin to describe it.
Re: Religions Of The World - [info]usaconcerned - Monday, 9 March 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religions Of The World - [info]arthur_ide - Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at 12:35 am (UTC) Expand
Women in God's eyes
[info]teri013 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 05:44 am (UTC)
As a feminist, I can not help but feel extreme anger over the decision of the Catholic church's decision. A 9 year old year, who has been assaulted since she was probably 6 years old, has been raped by a figure in her life who is supposed to protect her and raise her with love and care. Without even starting to mention the fear and trauma the little girl has gone through, how can God abandon them (the mother, the young girl, and even the doctors) at this critical point ?! I think the decision made by these so-called arbishops are simply without love, the essence of Christianity or whatever religion in this world today. And throwing only the mother and the girl and the doctors behind it consistently prove the status of men in this world today. What are we telling the world today through this decision? That women are wrong, just like in the Middle East, to be raped?! Why don't the Catholic Church go to the Middle East and tell those men who stone women to death by having UNWANTED sexual intercourse or brutally raped that their acts are justifiable because she cannot aborpt the children she never intended to have?

But most importantly, the "outcry" of anti-abortion groups are simply pathetic! I agree that the constant abortions are sinful and that it is definetly going against the natural law of life, but in THIS case?! Why are you condeming INNOCENT girls, just like this case, for abortion? Who are you to say that the girl should risk her life giving to the children she didn't mean to have?? Who are you to say that she has to face the guilt and pain in the eys of her children, if she did decide to keep the twins, for the rest of her life?! Are you doing ANYTHING about these psychological sufferings the girl will have? I believe that the anti-abortion groups should get their facts straight and stop being so single-minded to what they tihnk is "wrong" when it is not even the girl's fault. Stop judging based on black and white, the world is full of grey.
[info]gutclean wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 06:15 am (UTC)
Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva makes a wise comment. We need to listen to both our hearts and minds.

Thank goodness BTW that little boys can't get pregnant.
If men could become pregnant
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at 12:39 am (UTC)
abortion would be a sacrament.
amazing
[info]doneil wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 06:33 am (UTC)
what i dont understand is how the church keeps saying that life must always be protected, but yet it said that the 9 yr olds pregnancy was life threatening. why wouldnt they want to protect at least one of the lives, whereas if she had the twins they all possibly wouldve died. its wrong on so many levels. they dont even seem to care about the fact it was rape of a child! thats traumatic enough let alone being 9 yrs old and having 2 kids!
stupid little man
[info]jaxhusky wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:17 am (UTC)
He may wear red in the eyes of the church - in reality he is a stupid ignorant little man, truly blind to the ways of th
a sad little man
[info]jaxhusky wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:18 am (UTC)
He may wear red in the eyes of the church - in reality he is a stupid ignorant little man, truly blind to the ways of the world...
abortion for 9-year-old rape victim
[info]kanank13 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:41 am (UTC)
I agree with Lula. The church is out of common sense and civic responsibility. did the chruch ever think through how a 9 year old girl can take care twins? the church is out of bounds when it comes to rational decision making. it is time the brazilians stop going to the church to protest this kind of insane behavior happening again in situations like this. it is completely unfathomable how adults who are in power can reason like this in the church. may be they need to get out of their posh life in church living at others expense and charity and start making an earning just like the rest of us.
Catholic Churchh
[info]leonore35 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:41 am (UTC)
This shows the basic misogynistic nature of the Church as with islam. No mention of the physical/mental dangers of a very young child having babies especially twins. Being celibate priests have little knowledge of women. The rape of the girl is of little importance in this matter, and of course the rapist can repent and be forgiven!!
This recalls the days when mothers were sacrificed in difficult pregnancies to save the life of the unborn
who would go to hell if unbaptised. I would think God would be able to make a few exceptions to the Churches rules
The Pope should take action over this he is after all numero uno
Destruction of Life
[info]stainton wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:48 am (UTC)
I find it astonishing that the President of Brazil is defending the destruction of life, and saying that it was what had to be done. The procurement of abortion has long incurred automatic excommunication. I suspect that what the Bishop did was simply to clarify the position, and to declare that the perpetrators had indeed incurred automatic excommunication but that the girl had not because of her age.

Why the defence of the innocent should be seen as a PR nightmare for the Vatican is beyond me.
Re: Destruction of Life
[info]mediumspiny wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:36 am (UTC)
The President of Brazil is not defending the destruction of life, he is defending its preservation. A 9 year old is too small to carry twins to term, or even to a level of maturity where they could survive after caesarean section. So the abortion saved the life of one person. The twins were not going to live whether the abortion was carried out or not.

I presume that you see excommunication as a punishment. Therefore, you are saying that it is right to punish people for saving lives, because that is all that the doctors have done.

The reason that this is a PR nightmare is that the Vatican is not defending the innocent who are the child, her mother and the doctors. They are defending a system of controlling people, the Catholic church. This is not about caring for people at all, it is about maintaining power over them.

If you cannot see this, you are an ideal member of their church; naive, blinkered and accepting of authority. Exactly the sort of sheep that allow this stultifying hegemony to persist.
Re: Destruction of Life - [info]zahradelaplata - Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:56 am (UTC) Expand
Irrelevant
[info]leonore35 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC)
The Church is irrelevant, a corrupt wealthy institution with unlelected leaders which got most of its wealth through geniocide and theft. If you must worship God just get on with it. If he exists, he surely does not need men in gold encrusted robes with gold objects to hear your prayers
utterly ridiculous.
[info]hujjc wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 08:18 am (UTC)
I'm not going to argue about the existence or non-existence of God - in this instance it is besides the point. Some people are religious, and that is their choice/vocation etc.

The point to be made here is that the Catholic Church are displaying only arrogance, hypocrisy and out-dated disdain for the innocent little girl. The man in question is a dispicable example of humanity, and deserves the most severe punishment.

"Life must always be protected..."? What about the life of that little girl? The pregnancy would have undoubtedly have killed her - the abortion saved her life. But now are her scars not enough to bear? Must she bear the stigma for the rest of her life? It is a disgrace. Would the Church rather she give birth to two bastard children?
The Church at it's best....
[info]sportingmac wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 08:49 am (UTC)
...there is an arrogance still within the massed ranks of self appointed religous zealots - and I am talking about christian zealots here to be clear. I cannot imagine for one minute that Jesus meant for all this pompt and dressing up that the christian churches do in his name - nor can I see him turning the other cheek when a child is hurt. Our great and grand churches have done both these things today in this gross act. Shame on the church.
concern for the girl
[info]taxan975 wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 08:53 am (UTC)
Life must always be protected - what about the life of that little girl???? I'm not even talking about the ominous future she would be facing if she had had the twins, but about her health. Despite medical advances she may not survive the birth of twins at her young age.
Re: concern for the girl
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at 12:38 am (UTC)
I agree, but a fetus does not have life of its own--it lives off of the mother--and thus can be removed at will. A fetus is but a collection of evolving cells, and in the first trimester has no characteristic that can be considered human.
Re: concern for the girl - [info]agitator123 - Wednesday, 11 March 2009 at 05:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: concern for the girl - [info]arthur_ide - Thursday, 12 March 2009 at 05:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Get a life
[info]scot_in_canada wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:10 am (UTC)
The church excommunicates the mother and the doctor but not the step-father? Is this story for real? He rapes his 9 year-old daughter and his disabled 14 year-old and can be allowed to attend mass in prison? You agree to abort your twin sisters conceived during an incestuous rape and you don't deserve the church's forgiveness but the scum who does the raping gets absolution?
Why is this priest still working? Who still attends his masses? Why is the pope not involved? Where is the outcry from catholics everywhere?
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