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From heaven to hell: 18 die as drugs war rages on streets of Vancouver

The Canadian city has been named the best place in the world to live. But those halcyon days are over

By Paul Rodgers

Vancouver's streets are now a battlefield for rival gangs, armed with automatic weapons, seeking dominance in the city's booming illegal drugs trade. There have been 50 shootings there in the past three months

AFP / GETTY IMAGES

Vancouver's streets are now a battlefield for rival gangs, armed with automatic weapons, seeking dominance in the city's booming illegal drugs trade. There have been 50 shootings there in the past three months

Once upon a very recent time, Vancouver had a clean, safe image. Nestled between a spectacular bay and snow-capped mountains, this Canadian city, which is twice the size of Birmingham, was described by The Economist as the most liveable in the world. Not any more. As it prepares to host the 2010 Winter Olympics, what it's got now is not cuddly, eco-friendly publicity, but blood-spattered streets littered with shell casings and corpses.

Vancouver is the battlefield in a war between myriad drug gangs, which include Hell's Angels, Big Circle Boys, United Nations, Red Scorpions, Independent Soldiers and the 14K Triad. Guns – often machineguns – are fired almost daily. "We've always been told by media experts to never admit that there is a gang war," the chief of police, Jim Chu, said last month. "Let's get serious. There is a gang war and it's brutal." Vancouver's Mayor, Gregor Robertson, confessed that the police are fighting a losing battle. Since mid-January, the city has recorded 50 gang-related shootings, 18 of them fatal. And the violence is not confined to seedy neighbourhoods. The cross-fire is happening in quiet, residential cul-de-sacs and the car parks of up-scale shopping centres. It's a suburban civil war.

Nor are hardened criminals the only victims. An attack on one gangster's car killed a 24-year-old man hired to fit it with a new stereo. In February, Nicole Alemy, 23, the wife of another gangster, was gunned down in her white Cadillac – with her four-year-old son in the back seat. On Friday, police arrested James Bacon – one of three brothers who left the United Nations gang to join the Red Scorpions, intensifying the rivalry between the two – for conspiring in the deaths of four gangsters in their flat in Surrey, south-east of Vancouver. Two innocent men were forced from the hallway into the flat and also killed. Police said they intend to make more arrests over the weekend.

As Vancouver has boomed over the past two decades, attracting wealthy immigrants from across Canada and the Pacific, so too has the illegal drugs trade. It is now the third largest industry in the province, generating between C$7bn (£3.8bn) and C$8bn a year. A young, party-loving population with liberal attitudes to drugs has created strong domestic demand, while the province's mild climate and a ready supply of well-educated horticulturalists has led to supply of a premium brand of cannabis called "BC bud", produced mostly in hydroponic "grow-ops".

The drug's superior quality – "one puff and you're anaesthetised," reported one academic – also found favour with customers in the US, encouraging an imaginative corps of smugglers. Customs agents have found shipments in church vans, hollow logs and even kayaks. One enterprising crew emulated the prisoners of Stalag Luft III, digging a 110m tunnel "under the wire". The bigger problem for Canada, though, was the return trade. The US drug distributors preferred to pay in kind, with cocaine and guns.

Many commentators think Vancouver's violence is just a skirmish on the fringe of the much larger war in Mexico, where 6,000 were murdered last year as the state tried to reassert control over territories seized by drug lords. The result has been a 50 per cent rise in the price of cocaine in Canada, and correspondingly higher profits to fight over. But not everyone is convinced. Experts at Simon Fraser University argue that the problem is home-grown, and that it's exacerbated by police efforts to bang up mob leaders. "All you do is create vacancies as you put people in jail," said Ehor Boyanowsky, an associate professor of criminology. "Suddenly there's an opportunity."

In the short term, say the academics, Vancouver's problem is one of unco-ordinated enforcement. By one count, as many as 11 different agencies, including the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and local police forces, were responsible for suppressing the drugs trade. The courts are almost as confused. Canadian justice is more tolerant than America's. No one has been successfully prosecuted for simple possession of marijuana in years, and Amsterdam-style hash cafés operate in a grey zone, only occasionally being shut down. Because of judicial leniency, officers prefer to see their targets collared in the US. The "Great Escape" gang were under surveillance on both sides of the border, but were arrested in Washington.

In the long run, many British Columbians, on both left and right, accept that legalisation and regulation are the answer. Just the sales tax on C$7bn of drugs would pay for several hospitals and schools, policing costs could be reduced, property crime by addicts to pay for their drug habits would be slashed, and the gang wars could be quickly reined in. "But the international politics are unbelievable," said Dr Rob Gordon, director of Simon Fraser's school of criminology. "The DEA [US Drug Enforcement Administration] starts to foam at the mouth at the idea of there being a huge, legal marijuana farm just north of the border. Under George Bush, the concensus was that if Canada ever moved to exercise its economic sovereignty, they would shut the border down by searching every vehicle."

Until then, the best hope may be that one gang or another comes out on top, allowing it to impose stability, much as the Hell's Angel's bike gang used to do up to 15 or 20 years ago. Professor Boyanowsky said: "Those were the good old days."

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I Live In Vancouver
[info]kerrisdale90210 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 07:03 am (UTC)
I have lived in Vancouver for 40 years now and can say that this place is really an over hyped wannabe world class city with a population that is thoroughly brainwashed by a very controlled media that does the bidding of the housing industry. The city is a literal cesspool of crime, drugs, homeless people, litter, disrespect, graffiti, and most of all fear and unfriendliness.

Without a doubt this is the most insecure city I have ever been in. People are obsessed with "putting Vancouver on the map and showcasing the city to the world" and this is a daily theme put forth by the city's propaganda machine. The truth is this city doesn't deserve to be on the map for anyone besides the young folks who love the outdoors and natural beauty of the province, however the city itself offers very few things of real interest or culture compared to the major cities of the world.

Crime is TOTALLY out of control here and it is a dangerous place no matter what part of town you are in. That said it is truly a gorgeous place but unfortunately that is not what makes a city great, its people do and people here are cold and unfriendly. I have seen bumper strips that read "Welcome to Vancouver...Now Go Home!" We have a government here that absolutely does not care about anyone but the corporations that are benefiting from the 2010 Olympics. Health care is horrible here and people are dying while on wait lists for operations while the government is wasting money on huge unneeded mega projects, which includes the Olympics which only a slim majority of Vancouver City residents voted for while the rest of the province was shut out of the process and surely would have voted this down by a huge majority if they had been given the opportunity.

Warning to all who are thinking of coming here for the 2010 Olympics. Vancouver is a long way from Whistler, where the main Olympic activities are taking place, and during February it rains every single day (It did this year) and those wanting to see the beauty of the locale would be better advised to avoid this time of the year and its depressing gray skies and save your money and come here between June and October.
I ALSO Live In Vancouver
[info]notsoeaslyfoold wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 10:55 am (UTC)
I live in vancouver too.
it sounds like you have lived a hard, cold 40 years in vancouver...
how long have you lived anywhere else?
Seriously?, a cesspool of crime, drugs, homeless people, litter, disrespect, graffiti, fear and unfriendliness?
very few things of real interest or culture?
im insulted and frankly, i think that your outlook on the world is a bit twisted.

i recently lived for a year on main and hastings, (vancouver's homelessness and crack central)
never once did i see a gun, or shootings. i never got mugged.
and for the most part, everyone was quite nice.
i've met countless people from all over the globe in every culture
and the graffiti here is absolutely beautifull.
the streets are lined with diffrent trees that bloom and litteraly
rain down sheets of pink blossoms.
there is music everywhere. underground dance clubs where the only way to get in is through a basements camouflaged back door in an old ally, small intimate bars that are frequented by writers from
rolling stone magazine and the best inde bands in north america.
there is a literal abundance of history and culture from the first nations people to the Chinese immigrants
who built a series of secret tunnels under vancouver that are still there today.

the shootings in vancouver have remained mainly in surrey.
pretty much all the people who are shooting each other are driving bmw's, audi's and cadillac's
these are rich gangsters shooting each other.
its not a bunch of dudes in rusty ford tempos killin people for money and crack.

you are right about a couple things, the health care is horrible, nobody really asked for these olympics
and there are big corporations pulling the strings of our politicians.

Ps- it didnt rain every single day of febuary in vancouver and
its the olympic WINTER games, depressing weather
kind of comes with the season.


Re: I ALSO Live In Vancouver - [info]exvancouverite - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I ALSO Live In Vancouver - [info]tasd1 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]drvan77 - Monday, 6 April 2009 at 01:19 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]drako7_99 - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]kerrisdale90210 - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 02:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]steve1809 - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 03:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]cantor2537 - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 04:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I Live In Vancouver - [info]wolf604tr - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 04:40 am (UTC) Expand
scott
[info]canadian1234 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 03:45 pm (UTC)
wELL IM FROM CANADA,but vancouver is a whole diffrent world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ITS A VICTORIAN CESSPOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!VERY BIZZARRE PLACE!!!!!NOT CANADIAN!!!!not a safe city,infriendly,dirty,rude, has the highest hiv hep c rate in the developed world!!!!!!!!!worst crime in canada,highest property crime in north america,cops are very corrupt,cops have recently been charged with robbery and assault and racist etc etc etc
[info]cashfan wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 03:47 pm (UTC)
I live in Abbotsford, just 50 clicks east of Vancouver, and there are many gangs here in this so-called "bible-belt" small city.
Also take a look at the east side drug area of Vancouver, Dan Rather called it "Hell on earth- possibly the worst place in the world"

Rick Richardson
Abby views
[info]westcoast604 wrote:
Saturday, 11 April 2009 at 12:24 am (UTC)
If small towns like Abbotsford would take care of their own problems instead of shipping them to Vancouver we wouldn't be dealing with half the problems we have.

Stoping pointing outward and learn how to take care of your own.
scott
[info]canadian1234 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 03:50 pm (UTC)
wELL IM FROM CANADA,but vancouver is a whole diffrent world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ITS A VICTORIAN CESSPOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!VERY BIZZARRE PLACE!!!!!NOT CANADIAN!!!!not a safe city unfriendly,dirty,rude, has the highest hiv hep c rate in the developed world!!!!!!!!!worst crime in canada,highest property crime in north america,cops are very corrupt,cops have recently been charged with robbery and assault and racist etc etc etc THE DOWNTOWN EASTSIDE IS HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WORST IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scott
[info]canadian1234 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 03:51 pm (UTC)
WELL IM FROM CANADA,but vancouver is a whole diffrent world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ITS A VICTORIAN CESSPOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!VERY BIZZARRE PLACE!!!!!NOT CANADIAN!!!!not a safe city unfriendly,dirty,rude, has the highest hiv hep c rate in the developed world!!!!!!!!!worst crime in canada,highest property crime in north america,cops are very corrupt,cops have recently been charged with robbery and assault and racist etc etc etc THE DOWNTOWN EASTSIDE IS HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WORST IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vancouver
[info]westcoast604 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 03:58 pm (UTC)
A city is what you make it. I have lived in Vancouver for 21 years and found a warm and welcoming city. It is a city that celebrates the outdoors but is also home to a young and growing creative community. We may not have the massive arts institutions of a London or New York but we do have the small galleries that showcase new talent and not simply present status quo art.

Per crime, gangs and shooting. People are scared, angry and frustrated with a court system accountable only to it's peers and not the taxpayers. Citizens, not only the police, prefer gang members are arrested in the US. A helicoptor pilot who ferried drugs over the US border committed suicide when caught in Washington state. If arrested in Canada he would probably have been released on bail and serve a couple of years house arrest.

As for taxation / legalization would that include crystal meth and rock cocaine? What about synthetic drugs? What gov't would wish to be known for providing these? Economic opportunities will always be available for criminals to compete over.

Re: Vancouver
[info]drvan77 wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:48 am (UTC)
Sorry as a person that makes their living in the arts industry I couldn't disagree more. I don't know where you've lived in Canada and the world but I can tell you that of the six largest cities in Canada, Vancouver's arts scene is the poorest. You say that Vancouver isn't about presenting the status quo? Good god, people there won't even say if they like or dislike something until they check with someone they think is cool. A friend that was visiting said it best "You could pay 20 people to line up at a door leading to nothing and come back an hour later and there would be 60".
Re: Vancouver - [info]westcoast604 - Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 03:04 am (UTC) Expand
2010 Olympics Escalated Gang Hits
[info]mauricecardinal wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 09:19 pm (UTC)
I live in Vancouver too and have had hits occur just one block from my home in a very nice part of the city.

Gang hits increased at the same time law enforcement started to clean up the city in preparation for the 2010 Games.

Unfortunately, local mainstream news media, who are also Olympic suppliers and paid well by the IOC to tell the Olympic side of the Olympic story refuse to connect the dots and report why we are experiencing so much increased violence in such a short time. It's no wonder newspapers are going bankrupt. They think advertisers are their customers, when it's the readers and our community they should be serving.

When the 2010 Olympics security task force arrests one gang leader, it opens territory for the others to fight over, and violence erupts.

It's very stupid for law enforcement to think they can clean up in three years corruption that took thirty years to embed. This idiocy has killed innocent bystanders and put many more at risk. 110,000 people here work illegally in a drug trade that grosses $5 BILLION annually.

Tourists coming for the Games will also be in the crossfire.

You can read more and see video of Vancouver's nightmare here ...

http://www.olyblog.com/f/07/GangViolenceF09122007.shtml
Very True
[info]jasongaland wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 10:35 pm (UTC)
It is very bad in Vancouver. I live here. There are no jobs. People from with visas are losing their jobs and have to head back to their original country. Gangs wars everywhere. Drug addicts rob people on the street to get their fix. Worst place on earth.
[info]lower_mainland wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 10:53 pm (UTC)
There's a problem with taxing marijuana....
How would you tax it when people would exchange seeds with each other and grow it themselves?
I live in Van
[info]drako7_99 wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:17 am (UTC)
Yes ! It is a cesspool, and I have seen many other cities. It does not measure up to most others.
I finally left Vancouver after living there my entire life.
[info]exvancouverite wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:37 am (UTC)
I lived as born in the city, lived there my entire life, and within the past 10 years watched the city I used to love turn into a place I barely recognize. The city is a "cesspool of crime, drugs, homeless people, litter, disrespect, graffiti, and most of all fear and unfriendliness." The downtown area is fast becoming inhabited by high-rise living millionaires only because the real estate prices are ridiculously high. Eventually Vancouver will be completely devoid of culture and arts (not there is much to begin with), since those whose create it will no longer be able to afford to live anywhere near the city.
Yes, Vancouver if fortunate to be situated within a gorgeous landscape, but it is not a jewel. Far from it. Since leaving the city, I've been disgusted and disturbed by the nightly news reports of gang-land slayings taking place all over the city. None of it surprises me though, Vancouver and BC provincial politicians are notorious for turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to its citizenry. Some 60 woman disappeared from the downtown east side over a number of recent years and almost nothing was done to find them or to track down their killer. The BC Liberal gov (who are really right-wing big business loving morons) only care about big business and not about the people who make up the population of the city and indeed, the province at large. Vancouverites need to wake up and make their politicians accountable.
My advice to anyone thinking about coming to Vancouver in the near future, DON'T.
I live near Vancouver
[info]tsawwassen53 wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 01:41 am (UTC)
Vancouver is known by Eastern Canadians as 'Lotus-land' and the burgeoning drug war is an all to common event in a city where all unpleasantness is 'swept under the carpet.' according to the provincial government, we "live in the best place in the world."

The drug trade is a big employer in the province of BC (some estimates put the turnover as high as $10 billion) and in the so-called "hurt-lands" (the interior of BC) growing marijuana in small towns devastated by the demise of forestry and mining industries, is the main business. In Vancouver, high house prices and generally low wages, to afford a new house, family (mom & pop) gro-ops (growing marijuana in the home) has become the norm. All through Vancouver wafts the smell of small marijuana plantations growing in the basements all through metro Vancouver. The City of Vancouver and its notoriously inept police department turn a blind eye to this, unless there is massive public outcries and 'photo-op' busts are made.

The current provincial government is mired in several legal scandals, with several Minister's of the crown resigning due to police (read RCMP) investigations. Our parliamentary system of government represents the worst of colonial rule of old!

When the rule of law is flaunted by the central government, then the bottom feeders of society feel that the rule of law do not apply to them as well.

Living in the Vancouver metro region for 53 years and operating a store in the city for 22 years, I would say that your article is dead on and until myopic politico's and an 'Olympic' struck media (all we hear is 2010, 2010 rah, rah!) wake up and 'smell the dope', the carnage from daily wild west style gunfights will continue.

It isn't a Mexican problem; it isn't an American problem; it is a Canadian problem and is being dealt in the Canadian way - pretend that nothing has happened at all!
Re: I live near Vancouver
[info]westshore_5 wrote:
Friday, 10 April 2009 at 06:15 pm (UTC)
It's a cesspool of drugs & gangs because they like the climate.
Not all these unfortunate individuals who are homeless have a sad story, like many Americans. They choose to be on the street. There are plenty, of yes lower paying jobs available...check the "help wanted"!
Every winter we get more Easterners coming out here to pan handle, sell drugs, kill...etc.
I would like to see them shipped back to their home provinces and let their province deal with them. It's a major strain on our BC economy. One that could be easily fixed.
Why can't Canada deport gangs back to their origin?
And no I didn't get a vote on whether I wanted the Olympic's in our Province either. It's shitty!
All the money were spending on the Olympic's could have fixed schools & health care, a
and so much more....
But I would like to point out that Crime isn't just in Vancouver...it's everywhere, and although I visit Vancouver, there are still beautiful places within the city to visit.
Violent Vancouver
[info]burythedog wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 02:13 am (UTC)
Hey ,people, Vancouver is not all that bad. We have skiing, sailing, golf, the Olympics and a few gangsters. Well, quite a few actually. But they only kill each other. . .mostly. It is a lot easier to get around with most people staying off the streets and you wouldn't believe how polite everybody is becoming. All in all it isn't that bad. Come on over for the Olympics, relax and trust your body armor. Oh yeah. Be extra polite to the police. They each carry several lethal weapons at all times and have the authority to use them at their discretion. Do what sane people do and stay out of town. I plan to spend the Olympics visiting with cougars and grizzly bears and staying away from dangerous things.
OOOOO it's not perfect so please stay away
[info]55andlovingit wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 02:52 am (UTC)
Oh my God, in 2009 a city that is not perfect! Call the Pope, hide grandma and sell your stamp collection because this means the world has fallen off it's axis.

Grow up people. There is no Nirvana. Vancouver may not be perfect but I'm not sure which city with a population over 1 million is.

Sorry, I forgot my purpose here. The sky is falling Chicken Little and Vancouver is doomed so stay away in droves please.

I live in Vancouver
[info]top_runner wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 03:50 am (UTC)
Sadly, what Paul Rogers reports about the gang violence in Vancouver is quite true. It is easy to blame the situation on the drugs wars in Mexico but I fear the source of the problem is much closer to home. Overstretched police forces, insufficiently coordinated, and an indulgent judiciary that seems to bend over backwards to be lenient towards the perpretators of violence are major sources of the problem.

More deeply, the is a city of complacency and indifference. While there are fine examples of urban renewal, overall this city has become dirty, pooly maintained and with a level of poverty that one would expect to find only in a third world city. Much of the decline in Vancouver could have been predicted and dealth with. However, people here are so convined that they live in a 'world class city' in the 'best Province in the world' that complacency reigns.

Perhaps only more unflattering commentary such as that of Paul Rogers, especially as the Winter Olympics approach, will wake the citizens here from their narcissistic revery and demand action. Otherwise, Vancouver will deline further; an opportunity sqandered.
The good, the bad , and the ugly
[info]ulsterman wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 04:02 am (UTC)
I moved here from the UK 11 years ago. Here's my off-the-cuff take on the good and the bad:

Good: scenery, the summer, proximity of world-class skiing, mountain biking, walking the sea wall from Spanish Banks all the way round Staley Park, general lack of on-the-street violence, cheapish dining out, sushi in particular, lack of religious tension, limited class issues, the lack of jobs requiring suit and ties, sandals and wooly hats being fashionable, not being refused entry to a bar/club because i'm in jeans, t-shirt, and runners.

Bad: The gangsters (though i go about my day-to-day existence and it doesn't bother me - just like when i grew up in Belfast in the 1980's), absurd house prices, licence plates that say "The Best Place on Earth", Vancouverites who think it's the best place on earth yet the only other place they've been is Cancun, expensive, monopolistic auto insurance, expensive, monopolistic alcohol sales, rain in the winter (but then i need that for the snow), signs in Vietnamese and Cantonese/Mandarin with no English translation, traffic on the #1 highway, people who claim Vancouver is the best place because of the great scenery and outdoor activities yet do NONE OF THEM, it's 10 hours from my family in the UK, air travel is a rip off, not including surcharges, taxes, and sales taxes in the price of...just about everything, lack of good pub culture, people who think house prices should be what they are yet have NO understanding of economic fundamentals such as income-to-house price ratios etc.
vancouver - from a local
[info]cmhall wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 05:57 am (UTC)
i must say that in the 12 years i've lived in vancouver there have never been those halcyon days. the naming of vancouver as best city to live in should have been subtitled (in the last twelve years anyway) that is, if you are rich (or at least comfortable) and you can look away from the poverty and violence.

please recall the dozens of women dead by foul play in the last 15 years (downtown eastside sex trade workers) and the shallow trial (and ongoing appeal) of one of the perpetrators.

please recall the dead-in-the-water minimum wage which has barely moved in a decade, and has in no way kept up to the exorbitant cost of living in BC.

please recall a city that permits 'unauthorized suites' by the thousands - illegal rental units, usually with no fire exit, no fire alarms, no separate utility billings, usually in the poorly lit and never inspected basements of home owners and sometimes called mortgage helpers - that house hordes of students and minimum wage earners in the dank dark.

please recall welfare rates, frozen at 1980s levels, and that now require disclosure of confidential medical information to be maintained, that could not support a cat in vancouver - approximately $550/month.

please visit out 'SRO's, single room occupancy hotels that house 5000 people in the downtown eastside and charge $350 -$500 per month (without toilet) and whose managers will charge a mere $10 to let a visitor up to your room (sex trade client or mum - doesn't matter), $0.75 for a cigarette, $10 to cash your welfare check and only 10% to front your rent - oh and will let your dealer (to whom one may owe many dollars) up for free - to you, a fee to him.

please do not be taken in by our hubristic license plates - 'best place on earth' -because we have stopped trying to be a fair and humane province. we are the best place - if you can pay, and are willing to avert your eyes. the drug killings are only a symptom of opportunism gone wild in both the underground and the overground economies.

carolyn hall md vancouver
'Souless' Vancouver
[info]snowy1466 wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 06:17 am (UTC)
What I have noticed about this city is its hedonistic approach to life; there seems to be a lack of inner connection with humanity.

I have travelled to major cities all over the world and love to feel the connection with community, music and culture. How sad that many Vancouverites believe fine clothing & dining, luxury hotels, exotic cars are a reflection of who they are?very shortsighted indeed!!

A Simple Answer to All Your Problems
[info]beenandgone wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 12:56 pm (UTC)
Vancouver isn't perfect. It's just another city; an outpost far from anywhere. Yes, for Canadian standards the weather is nice. Yes, the landscape is nice to look at. But a utopia it is not.

So, if you've lived there for a year, or forty years, I have a simple solution. If the detriments outweigh the benefits of living in this particular city, leave.

I did.
Confused Canadian
[info]nerka72bc wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 03:09 pm (UTC)
"Just the sales tax on C$7bn of drugs would pay for several hospitals and schools, policing costs could be reduced, property crime by addicts to pay for their drug habits would be slashed, and the gang wars could be quickly reined in. "

I just don't see how property crime would be slashed....if drugs were legal all the drug addicts would get legit jobs and stop stealing things? Or the price of the drugs would be so cheap that they would be able to afford them but yet we would somehow get money for schools and hospitals out of them????
Can someone explain this one to me....it sounds like a whole heap of trouble to me...
Me Too in Vancouver Region
[info]metacray wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 04:12 pm (UTC)
I would say that what is and will be happening in Vancouver is reminiscent of Beiijing during the Olympics. Here is the reality. The current government which has been in about 7 years now and is spending $6 billion on the Olympics. For all their time in office they have ignored child poverty which is the worst rate in Canada, they have kept the minimum wage at the lowest in Canada, they have frozen welfare and disability rates, schools and hospitals have been closed, they are refusing life saving medication to people thereby giving them death sentences. While the rich party, the poor will be continuing to suffer in hardship, often with not enough to eat and no where affordable to stay.
The police who are investigated by themselves, are out of control with no punishments being meted out for civilian deaths, either by taser or guns. They drive drunk and beat up innocents at their will. These are the fine men and women that will be handling security at the games. I recommend body armor.
While you tourists are here you will be hustled off into security zones where, don't worry, the indigents have been removed for your convenience. If you feel that you are being watched then yes you are, and with swat on the rooftops DO NOT RUN OR MAKE A SUDDEN MOVE while in those zones.
My advice is that, if you value visiting a place that is what it is and not what it pretends to be, then don't come.

Re: Me Too in Vancouver Region
[info]aguaflor wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 05:42 pm (UTC)
legalize drugs-tax the hell out of them
[info]burythedog wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 05:43 pm (UTC)
Placing currently banned drugs on a restricted drug list will put them on the same footing as all restricted drugs. There are many addictive drugs that are now available via doctors prescription. Many people ARE addicted to them and are being treated as if they have a medical problem. Every M.D. in the world has addicted patients and they became addicted for different reasons. Some from experimenting for a non medical "high" and many from overuse during medical treatment. These people are treated by controlling and reducing the dosage, some by substituting a hopefully, less dangerous drug. (methadone, etc.) Their treatment is done using clean drugs of controlled manufacture that are distributed AND TAXED with medical supervision and government oversight

Currently those addicted to and/or using 'street drugs' have none of the safety factors regarding purity or dosage. They are forced to deal with a criminal underworld rather than a doctor or pharmacist. There are NO taxes paid by dope dealers and manufacturers. Placing most of the currently illegal drugs in the category of restricted drugs would make them available to medical professionals for treatment purposes and makes them safer and TAXABLE.

Marijuana and it's derivatives should be in the same category as alcohol and tobacco. They are potentially harmful but available to adults without prescription. AND THEY ARE HEAVILY TAXED.

Legalizing all drugs will not solve all problems. There will still be approximately 2% of the population addicted. This is the same percentage as in 1908 when the United States began it's original "War on Drugs". (Until 1908 there were no illegal drugs in the United States) But, as the repeal of alcohol prohibition did, it will take the power from the criminals, give consumers a safer product and give society some HUGE TAX REVENUES that can be used for improved medical treatment for everyone. The savings from reduced policing and court costs would also be phenomenal (billions of dollars) and could be used for the common good rather than giving criminals a monopoly and forcing the price of street drugs extremely high. The War on Drugs only benefits criminals.

Legalize all drugs. Deal with addiction as a medical problem. The police would be better used going after the third world suppliers of inferior copies of legal drugs. Take the profits from the criminals and use it ourselves. Make drug addiction treatment as socially acceptable as being treated for alcoholism.
No Place is Perfect
[info]anonphysicist wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 06:00 pm (UTC)
I live in Denver, Colorado, USA and have visited Vancouver once and found it a perfectly nice place. The "problems" that are decried so aggressively by Vancouverites in these comments seem to be things that occur in any large city. I have traveled all over the world, have lived in several large US cities and London and it is unreasonable to expect any city to be devoid of any problems with crime, property value or government. People who have lived in a single place for a very long time (>20 years) almost ALWAYS (in my experience) will go on about how that particular place "used to be so much better and now it's all gone to hell." I thought that Vancouver was very scenic, the people seemed friendly and the city itself seemed very safe. I may be biased because I am American and the most dangerous places I've ever been have been in America. I lived in Miami for 2 years that that topped the list by far. True enough I can imagine Vancouver not being right for everyone, I personally would have a difficult time with the weather in the winter, but as far as large cities go, it is one of the nicer ones I've seen in my experience, but by no means perfect. There is no such thing as a "perfect city".
Vancouver, It sucks.
[info]dwsp wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 07:30 pm (UTC)
I have lived in Vancouver all my life. The surroundings are beautiful. The people are assholes, buying into the media bullshit that vancouver is the best place on earth. NEWSFLASH! It is not. Vancouver is a bunch of rich chaches and crack heads and immigrants. Richmond has no culture anymore, hell I can't even read the signs as they are all in fucking CHINESE! I live in a quiet nice area, and a lady was killed three blocks from me a few days ago. I feel more safe walking the streets of NYC at 3am than I do the vancouver suburb streets at 8pm. Oh yeah, we also have the highest property crime and second highest violent crime in North America. I am normally accepting of other peoples oppinions, but anyone who disagrees with this is just one of the brainwashed vancouver lovers that needs to travel a little bit.


To sum up. Great location, shitty people, shitty attitudes, wannabe gangbangers shooting everyone up. Stay away, go somewhere nice.
Re: Vancouver, It sucks.
[info]lotusland123 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 05:35 pm (UTC)
I have just one word for all those who have nothing better to do with their time than trash this city - MOVE! All of you assholes don't realize that you perpetuate the problem by sitting on your fat asses bitching and complaining - doing NOTHING!. Go do something about it! How many of you actually take the time to fucking vote!? You're all pathetic
Strange Place
[info]vanvan337 wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 07:30 pm (UTC)
Having lived in Vancouver for 4 years I do have to admit it is a strange place. Vancouverites keep telling themselves it is the best city in the world but I am not sure they actually believe it. It's like pumping yourself up before a big sports game and telling yourself "I am the best and I am going to win." I know of many other places that might be better than Vancouver. But it is one of those places that has grown on me.
I do have major issues with Vancouverites. They are not open and don't want to commit to anything. They will tell you "Let's meet up" and then never do. Or, "I'm having a party I will let you know the details." Or, "Yeah for sure I will come to your party" and then never show up. I have been told it is a West Coast thing but I come from a place where commitments are commitments and you don't just say stuff. Vancouverites are not interested in meeting new people. Although there is the odd ball here and there, eager to meet new folks.
It is a nice place but I often compare it to a meeting a beautiful man (or woman) but once that person opens his/her mouth you want to move on because you realize it's jsut the outer shell that is nice but inside there is nothing. Don't get me wrong Vancouver is nice adn the moutnains and ocean are right there. I spent a day at Kits beach sitting around in the sun and looking at the snow covered mountains. The problem in my opinion is that the city has no energy or no umph. It's got no sizzle or night life. It is very conservative when it comes to night life and liquor laws. And I thought the Midwestern US was conservative.
I do believe the government just cares about letting foreign money in. It doesn't really give a crap about the citizens that have built this city.
There is a huge problem with homelessness. It's a problem you can't just sweep under the rug and hope it'll go away. What will they do with the Downtown Eastside during the Olympics? Load the "bums" on a bus and move them Eastward? Come on these are people that need help. Open up soem mental institutions. Don't we all pay taxes for something?
Crime is another problem that needs to be resolved and sooner rather than later. In my opinion the US is partly to blame for the crime that is happening in Canada and in Mexico. Where are these crooks getting their guns? South of the border. Are US gangs behind this? You bet ya! I am a pretty liberal thinking person but it's about time the sentences are harsher. Maybe we should go back to Medieval times to punish these guys and torture them instead of locking them up in a prison that provides them with clean clothes, warm meals and a warm bed (no matter how hard the mattress is).
But I think Vancouver is one of those cities people come to and love to hate. It's been too hyped up by media so that when people arrive here they have huge expectations. Poor Vancouver! If it had any feelings we should all give it a break and a hug. :)
Re: Strange Place
[info]ashleyscandy wrote:
Saturday, 30 May 2009 at 11:51 pm (UTC)
We can blame all the damn immigrants coming over here and breeding their gangster kids to support their life style. People from other countries are coming to canada and taking the jobs and leaving no jobs for the people that actually live here to begin with which is quit sad.
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