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German car firm 'used hair from Auschwitz'

Rolls of textiles made by Schaeffler 'contain hair from 40,000 death camp inmates'

By Tony Paterson in Berlin

Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler, the current owner, at a rally near Nuremberg last month. She has admitted that the firm used slave labour during the war

REUTERS

Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler, the current owner, at a rally near Nuremberg last month. She has admitted that the firm used slave labour during the war

One of the pillars of German industry, the giant but debt-crippled Schaeffler car parts supplier, was accused yesterday of using hair shorn from at least 40,000 Auschwitz death camp prisoners to make textiles at its factories in Nazi-occupied Poland during the Second World War.

The highly disturbing allegations were contained in new evidence unearthed by Polish historians at the Auschwitz museum, who said they had found rolls of fabric made from camp inmates' hair at a former Schaeffler factory in Poland's southern region of Silesia.

The discovery was the latest in a series of damaging blows for the ailing Schaeffler concern, which employs 200,000 people worldwide. The company is currently saddled with debts totalling €14bn (£12.6bn) and faces the prospect of bankruptcy.

Last month, Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler, the concern's flamboyant and usually fur-coated millionaire owner, appeared at a trade union rally and wept openly as she appealed to the government of the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, for a state-funded bailout. In an attempt to clear up rumours about the company's wartime role, Mrs Schaeffler recently admitted to using slave labourers at its factories during the Second World War. However, the company's officially published history still only begins in 1946.

The company's own historian dismissed the allegations yesterday and said there was no evidence to support the theory that Schaeffler processed death camp inmates' hair industrially during the Second World War.

But Dr Jacek Lachendro, a historian at the Auschwitz museum, told Germany's Der Spiegel television channel that 1.95 tonnes of cloth made from inmates' hair had been discovered at a former Schaeffler textile and army tank parts factory in the town of Kiertz (formerly Katscher) after the Germans withdrew at the end of the war.

The amount of cloth, which was pictured on Spiegel television as rolls of closely-woven brownish fabric, was said to have derived from the hair shorn from some 40,000 Auschwitz prisoners. Dr Lachendro said that subsequent analysis of the hair showed that some of it contained traces of the Zyklon B gas used by the Nazis to murder millions in the death camps.

Former workers at the factory in Kiertz who were interviewed on the programme said that they remembered two wagon-loads of human hair being delivered to the company in 1943. Kiertz is three hours' drive away from the Auschwitz camp.

Hair was routinely shorn from prisoners, usually on arrival, at the death camps. The Nazi war machine used it to make army blankets and socks for U-boat crews. The Auschwitz museum on the site of the former death camp displays a store filled to the roof with inmates' hair originally intended for so-called "human recycling".

The Kiertz textile factory where the hair is alleged to have been processed formerly belonged to the Jewish-owned Davistan AG concern on which the Schaeffler empire was founded after it was taken over by the brothers Wilhelm and Georg Schaeffler. Their company made armaments for the Nazi war machine, but after the Second World War it re-emerged as one of Germany's main suppliers of parts to the car industry, specialising in needle roller bearings.

However, the devastating impact of the credit crunch coupled with Schaeffler's misjudged hostile takeover of the tyre giant Continental have since plunged the concern into its worst crisis since the war.

Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler, an Austrian born former medical student, married into the concern and became its sole owner in 1996 after her husband, Georg, died. Last month she took the unprecedented step of joining a demonstration staged by 800 of her company's employees to appeal for government help. Previously, the company's management style had been called "feudal".

Mrs Merkel's government, which is currently being asked to provide state aid for Germany's ailing Opel car company, has still to decide whether it will help Schaeffler with a bailout.

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Comments

Zyklon B and its uses...
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 01:23 am (UTC)
An interesting article and will look forward to seeing the evidence here presented with proof to back it up.

The reference to Zyklon B however... proves nothing because the Germans, indeed most industrialised nations used Zyklon B to delouse large amounts of material, clothes or anything that could carry lice.

What seems to remain largely unknown about Zyklon B is that it played a very large part in creating the Bush fortune, the family that put Hitler into power... the same family that partnered with Thyssen and tragically had a large plant at Auschwitz and obviously must have taken advantage of the labour camps there at least.

If you check Bush's grandfather's congressional investigation that was abandoned at the end of the war in 1945, you will see he was being investigated for trading with the Nazi's... see the names he was accused of trading with...

I wonder if there is any link too, to another big lie of that era, the forced nationalisation of Germany's branch of Ford Motor Co Ltd by Hitler, this never happened, Erwin Ford remained in Berlin and ran the company secretly all through WWII, this only happened because Hitler was a firm admirer of Henry Ford, not least Henry's pathological hatred of Jews. A question to be asked here... Were Ford vehicles being made by forced labour and its proceeds sent back to the US?

Of course we have our own little secrets over here, Margaret Hodge MP, maiden name Oppenheimer (distant relatives of the British branch of that family involved in selling industrial diamonds to Hitler), her father was one of the largest steel magnates in Germany and his assets were never nationalised either, most people will note that pretty much all heavy industry in Germany sprouted labour camps especially as the war drew on to free up soldiers to fight, no one has ever asked did her fathers industries have forced labour camps...?
Let he who is without guilt cast the first stone
[info]chuckkw wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC)
If we are going to dredge up distant history, we can find plenty of atrocities in the old testament. In fact, dredging up old history was part of the cause of the horrible NAZI anti-Jewish movement.

Let us put WWII behind us. Something to be regretted. Something to be remembered. Something to for all countries to resolve to never repeat with members of any race or religion, neither within its own borders, nor in occupied territories.
The Perfect Car for Bishop Williamson?
[info]123pen_pen wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 09:16 am (UTC)
Is it?
Sorry to sound so strong, but he's just that sort of guy with some pretty ugly-sounding supporters if these boards are anything to go by.
I don't think he'd condemn any Nazi atrocity.
And as for moving on from World War Two, I applaud that, it's just it's hard to do that when revisionists proclaim untruths and if that isn't awful enough, they have minions of supporters who not only defend those untruths but add more untruths.
Re: The Perfect Car for Bishop Williamson?
[info]hanif001 wrote:
Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 03:16 pm (UTC)
Laws of motion - for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
World needs to revise the figures, so that we get an accurate picture.

The numbers don't add up. If there were 9 million Jews from one end to the other end of greater Europe in 1939. How can the Germans have captured and killed 6 million of them? Does not compute!
[info]cruiser22 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 09:21 am (UTC)
At what point in time is all of this past put in the past ?
It was a dreadful time, but no more cruel/intentional as Israel slaughtering thousands of innocent people in Gaza this past December and the year before.
The Jews have got to Stop trying to make the world feel guilty
Let's check in Africa,,what have the Jews done to ease the starvation or mass killing there
Let us discuss a Israeli tank with crew shooting 2innocent girls while they were exiting their home prior to this tank crew blowing the house apart..the tank crew chewed on potato chips and drank pop while their Jerk comrade opened fired with an american M-16 rifle. 12 bullets exploded in her body and then the parents and the little boy had to carry the 2 dead girls down a dusty road..
All because they were Muslim
All because the Jews are "out of control" and that the Palestinian people will not live as dogs to rich and corrupt jews Stealing their land....
Shame on you....
You don't hold me hostage, your warped sense of justice is so one sided
Get your cheque books out Zionists and pay for your atrocities in Gaza,,,
Stop being a bunch of Whinnie Babies
Israel has used the same wartime tactics recently on Innocent people as was done back in 1939 ,,and you're all brained washed into believing you are justified....
Israel is so disconnected from reality it stinks,,,
Apparently money talks doesn't it and the US is being sucked in....

(no subject) - [info] - Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 10:48 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bbc4israel - Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 03:09 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]freedomusa - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 02:06 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]hanif001 - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 03:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Why not simply collect from barber shops
[info]johnsmith007 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 10:30 am (UTC)
I have neer heard so much rubbish. Beyond belief. Do the really expect anyone to believe this propaganda ?
Re: Why not simply collect from barber shops
[info]jochebed2 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 02:00 pm (UTC)
The Nazis collected their murdered victims' clothes, glasses, gold teeth, artificial limbs, and, yes, hair (everybody was shorn on arrival), and not just in Auschwitz. They then sold them to other people. That is well-documented. Educate yourself.
Re: Why not simply collect from barber shops - [info]johnsmith007 - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 12:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why not simply collect from barber shops - [info]pedantiousjim - Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 02:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why not simply collect from barber shops - [info]johnsmith007 - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 12:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Revolting
[info]tominlondon wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 01:49 pm (UTC)
and the Germans keep on saying they knew nothing about what was going on in the camps.
Re: Revolting
[info]123pen_pen wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 03:25 pm (UTC)
The holocaust deniers have effected their agenda!
All one has to do is read the mindless hate that rears its head on these boards!
THAT'S the whole point, folks! They deny, not only to deny truth but to propigate hatred!
That is the reason history's revisionists must always be challenged, for not to challenge them would be to agree with their agenda.
Re: Revolting - [info]concretedave - Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 06:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Revolting - [info]freedomusa - Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 07:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Holocaust Propoganda
[info]wideawakein2009 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 07:18 pm (UTC)
This is more Holocaust NONSENSE propaganda!
Nobody on the planet is denying the holocaust happened, BUT what they are denying is the facts surrounding it were exaggerated to outrageous numbers and absurd accusations like this one to justify the taking of Palestinian land to set up a Jewish state. World War 1 and 2 were carefully designed by the powers that be for ulterior motives.
Just like this World wide economic collapse.
It's a Crime against humanity for anyone to be punished for freedom of speech.
Everyone has a right to question history and to publish their research without labeling it a crime.
When Truth is labeled a Crime or a conspiracy theory humanity is in big trouble!
If it is NOT THE "TRUTH" then why are they so AFRAID OF independent research????
Remember the prophets warned us not to be deceived in the last days!
Wake from your Slumber little children.
Re: Holocaust Propoganda
[info]freedomusa wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 07:33 pm (UTC)
I'm more concerned about the legal ramifications of just questioning this event from history. There are people being jailed for no other reason than to speak up in regards to questioning certain aspects of the Holocaust. What's up with the thought police?
Re: Holocaust Propoganda - [info]hanif001 - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 03:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Holocaust Propoganda - [info]freedomusa - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 06:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Hair from Auschwitz
[info]dontalk2her wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 07:34 pm (UTC)
This is another tragic reminder of a terrible period. Auschwitz today commemorates an industrial process of enslavement, torture and murder for the purpose of ethnic cleansing of the world's Jews amongst many other groups. This is not happening in Gaza. The finding of this dreadful artefact is no reason for any government to withhold support from an ailing industry.

I wish that there were fewer irrational, aggressive correspondents like cruiser22 who defeat their own purposes by ranting and exaggeration. Perhaps he/she might work off some of his choler by volunteering in Gaza; I'm sure it needs energy and committment, not raving from armchair supporters thousands of miles away. I'd like to appeal to the Independent to remove "the Jews are out of control" and "corrupt jews" from Cruiser22's post.
Re: Hair from Auschwitz
[info]hanif001 wrote:
Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 03:26 pm (UTC)
Good point - now they industrially process ethnic cleansing using the worlds most advanced weapons (some not permitted for use on humans by international law) in tightly packed areas. Eg Gaza... like "shooting fish in a bowl".
Lest we forget
[info]bsharo wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 07:49 pm (UTC)
Fifty five million + human beings were killed during WWII,of this number supposedly six million jews were killed in Nazi concentration camps.Why is so much emphasis put on the minority.What about the fire bombing of civilian populations towards the end of the war by the allies,mass murder,but conveniently forgotten by the winning propaganda machine.The truths on the tip of the global tongue thanks to the internet,time to end the guilt industry.
IS THE WOMAN ON KRAK
[info]charityplayer wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 08:59 pm (UTC)

THAT LOOKS LIKE THE TALLYMAN BEHIND HER
oh what a lovely war
[info]richleau wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 09:31 pm (UTC)
Yes, it's all you read about if your want to find news of Germany in British papers. The war, (second that is), Hitler, more war, more Hitler. How long can correspondents in Germany keep this going? I wouldn't mind the occasional war story - lovely as it is to read - but when it is the only thing journos can think of doing, i do worry about their fixation. Is it laziness? Taking the easy way out? News desks pandering too the lowest thrill factor?

As for this story, it does originate in Poland. Come on, that tells you something. The Poles have gone completely bananas over the war recently, maybe because they know the Brits will pick it up. German story mate? Got Nazis in it? Good looking bird? Go for it...

The real story in this Schaeffler saga is how a woman who runs a highly successful German family firm, is herself a billionaire several times over, suddenly took it into her head to abandon all sense and behave like a predatory British hedge fund: borrowed millions for an aggressive take-over of Continental.

But mate, it's got no war or Hitler in there, 'as it.

The worst at this game is Der Spiegel whose obsession with the war is infinite in its magnitude. You would think nothing else happened in the past 100 years. the Germans do have a certain right to be obsessed, we don't. Were the Victorians in the late 19th century still obsessing about the Napoleonic wars? No, they had an empire to build, the greatest industrial power in the world to run, the world to explore........

I read newspapers to find out something new worth knowing. I hope for enlightenment of the times in which we live. I don't want obscure niche history lessons.
What next?
[info]zebulonjoe wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 10:41 pm (UTC)
This story belongs with the ones about candles made from human fat, and lampshades from human skin. I would suggest it is just another fabrication, pun intended.
zyklon b
[info]basro wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 12:00 am (UTC)
insinuates it was taken from gassed inmates. no one would handle items with poisen on them, give me a break. this story has no credibility.
THE NAZIS NEVER GASSED A SINGLE JEW.
[info]holycost wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 12:46 am (UTC)
THE NAZIS NEVER GASSED A SINGLE JEW.

A little investigation makes this clear.

For a start you should consider this:

In 1990, the Jew HolyCo$t Lie Changed:

From 1948, till 1990, the Auschwitz subsection of the HolyCo$t fable was:

Number of Jews supposedly killed at Auschwitz = 3,000,000
Total Number of people killed at Auschwitz = 4,000,000

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2008/12/ausplaq1948.jpg
http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2008/12/ausplaq1948.gif

From 1990, till the present, the Auschwitz subsection of the HolyCo$t fable has been:

Number of Jews supposedly killed at Auschwitz = 1,000,000
Total Number of people killed at Auschwitz = 1,500,000

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2008/12/ausplaq1990deutsch.jpg
http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2008/12/ausplaq1990.gif

And,... Check out this Jew Math.

From 1948, till 1990, the overall number of Jews supposedly killed by the Nazis was 6,000,000

In 1990, the number of Jews killed at Auschwitz was reduced from 3,000,000 to 1,000,000

So, you would think that the overall number of Jews killed would also have been reduced to

6,000,000 - 2,000,000 = 4,000,000

But not at all,...

From 1990, till the present, the Jews have continued to claim that the overall number of Jews killed by the Nazis is 6,000,000

You see, for the Jews, any LIE that is believed, is a good LIE.

Even if the LIE is as stupid as the one I have just pointed out.

Here are a few of articles that may help explain what happened:

So, why do people believe in the holocaust, anyway?
http://linux.50webs.org/holocaust/why-believe.htm
http://guardian.ifastnet.com/holocaust/why-believe.htm

A Quick Proof that the Holocaust Story is a Lie.
http://linux.50webs.org/holocaust/jew-math.htm
http://guardian.ifastnet.com/holocaust/jew-math.htm

The Jews Declare War on Germany (in 1933).
http://linux.50webs.org/holocaust/jews-declare-war.htm
http://guardian.ifastnet.com/holocaust/jews-declare-war.htm

Death Certificates issued at Auschwitz.
http://linux.50webs.org/holocaust/auschwitz-data.htm
http://guardian.ifastnet.com/holocaust/auschwitz-data.htm
Physically sick
[info]coleridge1 wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 02:07 am (UTC)
This is the first time readers' posts on a newspaper's website have made me feel physically sick.

The crass stupidity and willful ignorance of Holocaust deniers such as Holycost et al is nauseating. While comments trying to draw parallels between the Nazis' treatment of Jews and Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza are just startling for the lack of understanding they display.


Re: Physically sick - [info]freedomusa - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 02:15 am (UTC) Expand
YHAQKHXSZ
[info]charityplayer wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 12:48 am (UTC)

SCHAEFFLER
SCHAEFFER

SCHAEFFER PENS

PLUS AN EMPTY PEN HOLDER FROM Corpus Brown To Missta Presleydent

LOL
INIT
INIT

lELIE WIESEL, A WELL-KNOWN HOLOCAUST LIAR.
[info]holycost wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 12:58 am (UTC)
The Fraud Elie Wiesel.

Elie Wiesel states in his book "Night" that when the Germans evacuated Auschwitz, he was given the option of staying at the Auschwitz hospital, with his father registered as a patient, to await the arrival of the Soviets, or to join the evacuation with the "mass-murdering" Nazis to Germany.

Guess what? Elie Wiesel chose to go to Germany with the "mass-murdering" Nazis.

Amazing,... eh? Elie Wiesel chose to accompany the "mass-murdering" Nazis on a long journey in the middle of a freezing winter, taking his father with him, rather than wait (with about 7,650 other sick or disabled Jews) for the Soviets to arrive.

Wiesel's father died because of his choice. The actual quote is:

"The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. 'Well, what shall we do, father?' He was silent. 'Let's be evacuated with the others,' I told him."

Isn't it hilarious,... that the Jew Elie Wiesel (whose books repeatedly describe horrendous Nazi "mass-killings" of Jews at Auschwitz) should choose to go with the very same Nazis that had been "mass-killing" his fellow Jews, rather than wait for the Soviets.

It is fair to ask why the Nazis didn't bother to kill off these last 7,650 witnesses to "genocide" (those left behind when Auschwitz was evacuated).

7,650 witnesses to "genocide" just let go by the "mass-murdering" Nazis.

It is also fair to ask why the Nazis didn't bother to kill off the other 60,000 witnesses to "genocide" that they transfered to camps in Germany.

Another 60,000 witnesses to "genocide" left alive by the "mass-murdering" Nazis.

It is also fair to ask why the Nazis needed the hospitals at Auschwitz and Monowitz, since they could just kill the Jews who got sick and were unable to work. Of course, killing all Jews who were sick and unable to work, is part of the Jew Auschwitz myth.

Imagine that, the "mass-murdering" Nazis tried to heal sick Jews. Surely they should have just killed them.

It is also fair to ask why Elie Wiesel never mentioned any gas-chambers in his memoir, "Night." In his version of the fiction, the Jews were burnt alive in huge pits.

Then there is the little problem that human bodies don't burn.

And even then, there is the little problem regarding fires in pits. they tend to go out due to a lack of oxygen.

And even then, there is the little problem regarding the level of the water-table at Auschwitz. Any pit more than 45 centimeters deep, would fill with water,...

but why let a few facts get in the way of a good story.
Re: lELIE WIESEL, A WELL-KNOWN HOLOCAUST LIAR.
[info]freedomusa wrote:
Friday, 6 March 2009 at 02:18 am (UTC)
holocaust denial
[info]dormidina wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 01:27 am (UTC)
Reading the holocaust deniers comments makes me sick to the stomach. Where do these forum commentators come from? I have met Jewish people who lost all of their relatives in the holocaust. Try reading Elie Wiesels book again- a woman on the train has a premonition they would all be burnt alive, the smell of burning human flesh was evident and somehow I doubt that a friendly Nazi officer took the lucky Jews around to check the construction of their final destination first. You deniers should be ashamed of yourselves and I regret you don't seem to have been given a thorough education at school
Re: holocaust denial
[info]freedomusa wrote:
Friday, 6 March 2009 at 02:20 am (UTC)
Re: holocaust denial - [info]steve_wiseman - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 05:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Holocaust deniers
[info]schultpe wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 03:28 am (UTC)
I am hesitant to even write this comment, because Holocaust deniers (like World War II deniers, spherical earth deniers, universe deniers, moon-as-green-cheese believers, etc.)are not interested in legitimate debate. However, here goes. Holocaust "deniers" fit into two categories:

1) Those who know better (and are in fact sorry that the
Holocaust did not go further, and would like to see it
start up again).

2) Those who are not capable (or, to be fair, are simply
ignorant) of knowing better. It is worth noting that
those in this category are routinely exploited by
those in the first category, who send these unknowing
dupes out with spray paint, to smash windows, or to
rallies where they get themselves arrested (since the
First Category "leaders" will not put themselves at
such risk).

It remains clear to anyone with a brain that denying the Holocaust amounts to supreme irony (since no event in all of history has been as meticulously documented by the perpetrators of the event themselves). Read the transcripts of the Nuremberg Trials (if you believe, of course that such trials ever occurred, or that there is a city actually called Nuremberg, or that there was a war between 1939 and 1945, etc., etc.)

Paul Schultz
Human Hair
[info]steve_wiseman wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 01:31 pm (UTC)
Upon arrival to the camps the people had their heads shaved and were given showers to protect them and their fellow inmates from the typhus carrying lice that many of them had on their bodies and hair. The next thing to do would have been to immediately kill all the lice in the cut hair using zyklon B or steaming. Now what should have been done with the hair after all that? Burn it ,bury it, does it really matter?
Re: Human Hair
[info]coleridge1 wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 05:35 pm (UTC)
Nice try, but your explanation doesn't hold water. Newly arrived prisoners would often go straight from the ramp to the gas chamber; hair and teeth were then taken from the corpses.

In denial
[info]hottap wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 04:46 pm (UTC)
The Second World War was a brutal, insane period in human history.

The fact that human hair was used in car parts to adds nothing to its understanding or preventing a repeat.

The most specious deniers were the Israeli spokespeople, appearing on Television last Christmas, who were unable to understand their actions in Gaza were in any way wrong: they were in total self-denial.
They could not see those dead children that the rest of the world could see and count.

The whole point of the Holocaust museums, books, memorials, films and this article were to prevent future horrors, to prevent what happened in Gaza last Christmas.

The Holocaust project has failed. It did so Christmas 2008.
Re: In denial
[info]ossian_carey wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 07:40 pm (UTC)
I am commenting, but I don't believe articles such as the one above should be open to comment by the ignoramuses of the world. It turns the Independent into the gutter press. Where is the editorial judgement that would open some articles to comment and leave others without comment? If I can see it and you dear editor can't...Resign - or do your job properly.
Re: In denial - [info]ossian_carey - Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 07:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In denial - [info]coleridge1 - Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 07:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In denial - [info]ossian_carey - Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 08:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In denial - [info]freedomusa - Friday, 6 March 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC) Expand
Holocaust Hair Deniers
[info]madmiraclemax wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 07:50 pm (UTC)
What? Only 40,000 Jews were shorn under the Nazis? How absurd! Everyone knows that at least 6 million heads were shaved! Shame on you!
Re: Holocaust Hair Deniers
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Wednesday, 4 March 2009 at 11:20 pm (UTC)
The origin of the people whose hair it is is not mentioned.
IBM: Great line in Jew counting!
[info]pomnik wrote:
Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 02:21 pm (UTC)
and how come the Nazis could generate such accurate lists of people to deport? How could they concentrate on Polish Jews first? IBM, who says technology isn't relevant to understanding the Holocaust, it is central to it.

I suppose Poland being shifted bodily westwards, with huge shifts of population, not to mention inheriting the sites of the Holocaust, not to mention 1/4million ethnic Poles who perished in the death camps, not to mention the 1.8-1.9M who perished under Nazi occupation (not to mention Katyn and those who perished in Siberia under the Soviets) might make them reasonably sensitive?

But at least we can be grateful for the accuracy of "Nazi occupied Poland" rather than the BBC nonsense of "Polish Death Camps"...

Incidentally, at their height of operation the customised, integrated gas chamber/crematorium complexes were killing 9,000 people a day, day after day, they didn't really get going until 1941 but 6 Million Jews (3M of them Polish citizens) over 5.6 years @ 365 days per year is something like 3,000 per DAY....days after day after day (but the Nazis hadn't really got going in 1939 and 1940)

I am appalled by the Israeli brutality in Gaza, but 1300 in 3 weeks tho appalling cannot be compared to the Holocaust. We Europeans didn't fight the war to liberate the Jews and we liberated and left them in camps which were renamed Deportation Camps, we fed them sure but the survivors had to struggle often stateless, family-less and resource-less with no clear future and no-one making them welcome after what they had gone through. A tombstone at Bergen-Belsen reads 1952.

Does Europe set itself as the example? Can it really afford to throw stones, particularly grossly anti-Semitic ones?

[info]steve_wiseman wrote:
Friday, 6 March 2009 at 05:40 pm (UTC)
If I claim that the 400 year old massacre of our Native people killed about 100 million people, whereas another person claims using basic arithmetic or science or logic that the number could have been no more than 20 million people. How should we settle this debate? Should we see more movies and read more ?newspapers? together? Or should we ask Hollywood to make a Indian movie? Should I try to get him arrested for a hate crime, start calling him an Indian massacre denier, petition my MP to make all such research and debate a crime, start calling him anti-Native, have him beaten up, fire bomb his house and place of work, or should I try to have him shipped to a country for a phony trial and jail time? Or should we both continue to research and discuss the debate without fear of jail or destruction? What would be the best recourse for two intelligent people to settle this most important debate on the destruction of our Native Americans?
Hair
[info]goingbacktobed wrote:
Wednesday, 21 October 2009 at 09:18 am (UTC)
human hair extensions for Additional Lenghts
Debate not prison
[info]asonberg wrote:
Thursday, 29 October 2009 at 06:48 pm (UTC)
Holocaust denial, while personally sickening in my opinion, should not be a prisonable offence or even a civil offence in my opinion. I consider holocaust deniers to be laughable, pathetic creatures but that does not mean they shouldn't be debated. Note that by the phrase holocaust deniers I mean either people that claim it never happened, or claim that the numbers involved were severely reducced from say the more generally accepted figure of 6 million to more objectionable figures say below 500,000. I personally am moe inclined to believe 6million to be fairly accurate but a genuine debate on numbers, for reason other than anti-semitism, I am not offended by.

Why am I certain the holocaust happened? Putting aside the huge amounts of historical proof there are some very simple reasons; namely the loss of family members during that period. Before the usual bigots start let me make clear I am neither jewish nor Israeli although my father was jewish and my mothers adoptive parents were polish jews. Significant members of the family on both sides of the family tree were lost to the holocaust although am sure that the deniers would think up a myriad of reasons why it wasn't so. Maybe aliens abducted them all, eh deniers? (Note; don't get hung up on the possible ethnic origins of a name like asonberg - it bears absolutely no resemblence to my real name. Its just an alias I use sometimes online).

Finally, to those who bemoan the fact its thought only 6 million jews died in the holocaust when 55m or more were lost to the whole second world war they are missing something very important. Namely that the estimated european population of jews was thought to be approximately 9million. If 6million jews died in the holocaust then that means two thirds of european jews were victims to the holocaust. That shows it in a rather more illuminating light I think.

Holocaust deniers should be debated and their views to be shown for the pathetic joke they are.

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