Pakistan hits back with attack on Cameron's 'inexperience'

By Andrew Grice, Political Editor and Omar Waraich in Islamabad

Friday, 30 July 2010

David Cameron with his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh before their meeting in New Delhi yesterday

Reuters

David Cameron with his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh before their meeting in New Delhi yesterday

David Cameron defended his stinging criticism of Pakistan last night as he prepared to seek greater co-operation from the country's President in tackling terrorism when he visits Britain next week. The talks at his Chequers country residence with Asif Ali Zardari were arranged before the Prime Minister infuriated Pakistan's leaders on Wednesday by saying the country must not "look both ways" on terrorism.

What is likely to be a tense session may have been made slightly easier when Mr Cameron stopped short of repeating his stinging criticism at a press conference at the end of his two-day visit to India. Although he stuck to his guns in TV interviews, he did not reprise his warning that Pakistan must not "export terror" to the world.

"It is not acceptable, as I have said, for there to be within Pakistan the existence of terror groups that cause terrorism both within Pakistan and also outside Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in India and elsewhere in our world," Mr Cameron told journalists in New Delhi.

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"What we will continue to do is work with the Pakistan Government to do everything that we can to encourage them to crack down and to take on these groups that have caused so much pain and so much suffering."

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, defended Mr Cameron's plain-speaking approach, even though some Foreign Office officials are believed to be worried that the attack will harm relations with Islamabad. Some members of the high-profile delegation to India are said to be concerned that the Prime Minister's comments overshadowed its main purpose, boosting trade.

But Mr Cameron, hailing his India trip as a huge success, insisted: "I don't think it's overshadowed anything. I think it's important to speak frankly and clearly about these issues. I have always done that in the past and will do so in the future."

David Miliband, the shadow Foreign Secretary, attacked Mr Cameron, saying there was a "big difference between straight talking and being a loudmouth", and claimed the Prime Minister had been "going off script" in recent public statements. The former Foreign Secretary said everyone had "two ears and one mouth" and it was important to use them "in that proportion" when it came to foreign policy.

Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Pakistan's High Commissioner in London, suggested that the Prime Minister had made a mistake because he was inexperienced. He told the BBC he hoped Mr Cameron's comments were a "slip of the tongue" and "not a meant slight by him".

He said: "He is new in government, maybe he will learn and know how to handle things. I hope he will make amends and pacify the people of Pakistan as well as the government of Pakistan because it has been taken here very adversely, people are really hurt."

Mr Cameron left India without seeing Sonia Gandhi, President of the Congress Party, and her son Rahul, a likely future prime minister, after a planned meeting yesterday was called off on Wednesday night. A senior British diplomat insisted there was no question of a snub. He said the Government had been given very clear assurances that the Gandhis were "unavoidably out of town for a compelling reason" and were "very sorry to miss the Prime Minister on this occasion".

In a rare moment of unity, Pakistanis across the political spectrum angrily denounced the Prime Minister's claim. "Mr Cameron's double-speak is in bad taste," said Marvi Memon, a leading opposition parliamentarian.

Many took issue with the timing of his remarks – just hours after Pakistan suffered the largest plane crash in its history. Citing their own losses to terrorism, Pakistanis bristle at suggestions that they are not doing enough to fight against Islamist militancy. The Pakistan army, senior military officers point out, have lost more soldiers in recent years than US and Nato forces.

Many Pakistanis are linking Mr Cameron's comments to the stream of war logs released by WikiLeaks, accusing Pakistan's intelligence service of aiding the Afghan Taliban, which it denies.

The Prime Minister's comments carried the added sting of being issued in Pakistan's arch-rival India. "Desperate to sell Hawk jets [to India], Mr Cameron sank to his knees," snorted Salmaan Taseer, the Governor of Punjab and a leading Pakistani businessman.

"Mr Blair came grovelling after 9/11 to Pakistan for help against the Taliban," he added. "To sell £700m jets and nuclear technology, Mr Cameron now accuses us of duplicity."

  • chandrabhan
    Thank you merlin for the advice. Let's start with subjugated Scotland, Ireland and welsh. When are you planning to talk about their independence? It's been almost 500 years for all three of the nationalities on an average. A tiny speck of island with 60 million residents, with no sun and omni present rain, Britain's time has come. Every month when i land i expect the banner , "Welcome to Britainistan". The 'Great game' played out by Caroe and others on India by gifting a piece of land to Islamists and pandering to them to punish Congress non cooperation in WWII is devouring the player. Kashmir is legally Indian and will remain so for you information. We are 1.2 billion people and no issues of manpower. Do you get enough to eat in the bankrupt nation? Do you have a job? Now you don't have a wealthy India to loot anymore. Those 60000 passes given out to Mirpuris in 1947/48 are millions and they are coming for you sweetie. Do you like a Burqa? Queen is surely going to be in one.
  • Guest
    Sid

    Essentially your point is that it is not only muslims that are responsible for the terrorism of the 20th/21st Century, is that right? Are you suggesting that if the west decided to pick on one of the other religions back in the 80s, world events could have been different? Am I gona get a response from somone else stating Sihkism is a peaceful religion?
  • Guest
    "With a string of lawsuits behind him, Mr Adelson's peers describe him as an aggressive opponent, who is not afraid to play nasty. He has given hundreds of millions of dollars to right-wing and Zionist causes, many of them in Israel, and was a generous donor to US President George W Bush's re-election campaign for 2004." from the article The press baron who's making news in Israel A US casino tycoon has upset Israel's media establishment with the success of his newspaper By Catrina Stewart So what do you or anyone else have to say about that?
  • Finally UK seems to have a leader who can speak in no nonsense language. Pakistan, which has been ruled by rogue army for most of its existence, is still indirectly ruled by the rogue, army without a mandate. If Pakistan is upset about the comment, it should figure why such comments routinely come its way, instead of going off the handle. Using terrorism as a state policy is bad - whether it happens from Pakistan or from US (CIA). It has always come back to haunt the creator, while causing a lot of trouble for the tormented. If Pakistan continues down this path, its just a matter of time before mushroom clouds darken the skys over NY or Delhi... Pakistan will still be claiming it is the job of 'non state actors' and claiming immunity from any reprisal!!!
  • Pakistan received billions in aid and hardware since Musharaf struck a deal with Bush and Blair. After such large amounts of subsidy, a think a little criticism should be tolerated, especially when there is much truth in Cameron's accusation.
  • Sid, Please explain your analogy. Are you comparing sikhs to taliban and India with Afghanistan? The discussion here is about Pakistan though. What your PM said about Pakistan & ISI isn't news. Pakistan cries itself hoarse that it was the US & UK who funded & trained the jihadis to wade off the Russia threat. Pakistan did no one any favours. They got huge amounts of foreign aid in return and they have milked this excuse ever since. US & UK did not fund the country's bend to an extreme version of Islam (started under Gia-ul-Haq). Pakistan today is paying for its own deeds. If you still think ISI & Pakistan are innocent little kids, kindly read up on Kargil & Mumbai.
  • busysignal
    Mr Cameron is absolutely correct in his frankness!!!Taliban Leaders grew up in Pakistian and went to school their. They are not just going to do a 180 degree they need to be told.Bravo PM Cameron.
  • "Bafoon", Faraz, is a great expression for those who blindly follow religious indoctrination. Kids are brought up on religion long before they are old enough to make a decision for themselves and more often than not by ignorant, an-alphabetic parents who themselves have been indoctrinated for thousands of years fraudulently.
  • Rettam_1taht
    Having just heard Imran Khan on the radio blaming the violence in Pakistan on the west it is yet another reminder that the Muslim world is living in denial. The vast majority of violence in the Muslim world is perpetrated by fellow Muslims. Pakistan is a failed state where northern provinces are answerable to no gov't. It seems Mr. Cameron has offened Pakistan. It is surprising to say the least that criticism....something the Muslim world revels in when referring to the west....seems to unsettle so many. The truth sometimes does hurt.
  • chandrabhan
    Thank you merlin for the advice. Let's start with subjugated Scotland, Ireland and welsh. When are you planning to talk about their independence? It's been almost 500 years for all three of the nationalities on an average. A tiny speck of island with 60 million residents, with no sun and omni present rain, Britain's time has come. Every month when i land i expect the banner , "Welcome to Britainistan". The 'Great game' played out by Caroe and others on India by gifting a piece of land to Islamists and pandering to them to punish Congress non cooperation in WWII is devouring the player. Kashmir is legally Indian and will remain so for you information. We are 1.2 billion people and no issues of manpower. Do you get enough to eat in the bankrupt nation? Do you have a job? Now you don't have a wealthy India to loot anymore. Those 60000 passes given out to Mirpuris in 1947/48 are millions and they are coming for you sweetie. Do you like a Burqa? Queen is surely going to be in one.
  • Sid_Vicious: You must be living in the 19th century to think British give Billions to India (when in reality, even in 19th century British stole billions from India). Today India has more Forex Reserve than UK, perhaps may need to bail it out when it faces a grece like collapse in near future. Last time India had to take a International Financial assistance was 20 years ago, and an fossil of 19th century like you may not be aware of this. Afterall you are still stuck in the mindset of lording over and stealing from a colony, while talking about independence of a people who aren't even demanding independence!!! In any case, If UK tries to bomb India today, it may just come to realize that it isn't the fractious India it came to conquer 400 years back, and India can more easily bomb UK than other way around.
  • TitusLivius
    Well done David Cameron; at last we have a PM with the balls to stand up for the UK on the world stage against the US and Israel. As a non-Conservative I applaud his stance against terrorism exporting Pakistan; standing up for British interests. A British bulldog compared to Blair's a**e licking poodle.
  • sally2801
    Cameron was only stating the truth and remains the only hope for the world as the US drowns in debt, deficit and deepwater debacles. He must court India, a bastion of democracy and spirituality now enjoying prosperity at last. India can supply ethanol from sugarcane, water and solar power. It exports medicines, textiles, vegetables, spices and other foods. It is a reliable friend, strategic ally and champion of peace.
  • Faisal00
    Pakistan is not a failed state but is a victimized country with the hand of its naughty neighbor. India is involved and responsible for all unrest in the Sought-Asia region. She is the only country that has conflicts with all its neighbor. Its bad named agency RAW is creating unrest in Pakistan's Northern Areas and Baluchistan. The world must take notice of the Indian deeds and explore the cause of revenge in Muslims.
  • Well said david cameron ,now on we should work in afghanistan with Raw (indian spy agency) , and abandone all ties with Pakistan and victory is ours.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    No mate you should have a look at what happend back in 1984 the hindus burned alive 3000 sikhs at the golden temple while rapeing there wifes and sisters and still no justice the sad thing is our govement stood back and did nothing along with america we owe it to the sikhs to help fornm there own country and nation called khalistan in punjab im just hopeing david cameron will do the right thing along with obama and go bomb india we need to help the sikhs who have suffred at the hamds of hindu terrorists for years thats why they have there own freedom fighters called khalistan but the hindus call them terrorists and suicide bombers!
  • Merlin: Kashmir will never be another Muslim Majority nation in South Asian region. Pakistan had about 20% Hindu minority in 1947, and today has about 1.8%, Bangladesh has similar record, while Indian Minority percentage went up from 11% in 1947 to 14% in 2001. India will not allow another muslim majority nation to come into existence that'll systematically cleanse its ethnic minorities. The whole world may be dumb to this - But, Indian *Hindus* can't be.
  • In my opinion Mr. Singh and David Cameron Playing game of naivety. India always blames Pakistan for the ill in the country. World knows why. India and Pakistan tension is in the region because of Muslim majority state Kashmir and Kashmir?s fighting to gain Independent from both side of the border in their quest to end atrocity of Indian rule in Kashmir. India has done nothing to facilitate Kashmir issue. Instead India has put many obstacles towards the peace and has refused to talk to Kashmir?s and to Pakistan regarding Kashmir? Kashmir must be independent.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Mate its the indians who are takeing us english and british for a ride we give billions to india each year which it begs from us pleading poverty and without fail has the begging bowl out yet it has a space programme which is being used with our money it makes me sick to the stomach knowing my taxes are going to such a wealt]hy country who treats 70 percent of its own people like a piece of dirt who have to ive under 50 pence a day its time for david cameron to stop giveing a single penny and i hope he goes in and bombs india for freedom and democracy along with our american friends and helps set up a independant nation for the sikhs for the injustice they have suffred that way most of the sikhs in britan can go back home to there homeland
  • India a bastion of democracy? Democracies are generally not known for massive human rights abuses. India has a complete disregard for human rights, majority of its population live in poverty, minorities regularly attacked, wife burning still continues, witch hunting and burning is also quite common, all of the major cities are slums. "India only hope for the world"? - yes if you've been watching too many Bollywood movies and live in a fantasy world.
  • billmarden
    My old Granddad, who helped the Americans in WWII ;), would have said "You cant send a boy to do a man's job". That's if he hadn't died at age 65 in a Tory NHS hospital.
  • sona50
    pakistan isi collusion with the taliban have been well documented and very well known in government circles across nato/isaf countries - remember the leaked documents are essentially reports to the pentagon and many people have commented on this what the pakistanis are really hyperventilating about is the fact now it's common knowledge among all the people - nefarious deals do not survive exposure to sunlight
  • daveyah2002
    Cameron has merely told them the truth! Their country provides muslim brainwashing in madrasssas like we provide the OU. They churn out zealots like Ford churns out cars. Pakistans security services are infected with those who 'believe' too. To say it all outright is un-diplomatic. But it's the truth and you may not like being told. Across the muslim world militant Islam is no longer just an export, it has turned and they are having to put the genie back in the bottle.
  • speakasyoufind
    Whilst, India has not taken heed of Kashmiri aspirations of independence, it is naive to assume that Pakistan only desire Kashmiri independence. India is a secular democracy with a large and thriving Muslim population and now an emerging superpower, Pakistan on the other hand, is either ruled by military despots or corrupt politicians more intent on feathering their own nests rather than doing anything useful to uplift the wrteched lives of their downtrodden countrymen.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Bring this clown home the man is a embarrasment to the country its crystal clear this posh kid from the leafy suburbs does not understand real issues never had his hands dirty and who can blame pakistan for hitting back we have put there country in great danger and created a mess thanks to us folowing the yanks like puppy dogs and cameron calling us there juniors while where bombing afghanistan we have created terrorism in both countries thanks to our invasions if we had gone in to india and bombed them for instance they too would have terrorist bombs going off its not rocket science bring this joker cameron home ASAP
  • SID_VICIOUS
    When is david cameron going to show some backbone and tell the indians we are no longer gonna give bilion in aid your takeing us for a ride the country has a space programme unbelievable a hugely succesfull business industry and bolywood along with the IPL cricket and the force 1 formula raceing the country has pots of money yet its us mugs paying for this nonsense out of our tax while the indians are takeing us for a ride and dopey david cameron cant see it while 70 percent of the population in india live under 50 pence or a dollar a day in poverty while the rich and class system in india continues to rule the rich get richer and the por poorer while our money is going on space programmes you could not make it up if you tried!
  • joseph_blog
    What a complete and ungrateful buffoon .... it is not only the British who value their war dead, I am sure the Pakistani's do as well ........ all at the expense of the British warmongering. Is there anything the British will not do for the financial scraps from the Indian dinner table? If I was a Pakistani, my response would be to let the hapless British loose on their own in Afganistan - and see the body count rise ... Why on earth are the Pakistani's assisting in an illegal war in the first place? As far as this posh imbecile's comments go, if I was the Pakistani PM I say would have only one word in reply and it would end in "off" .......
  • allenn007
    Very silly, unthinking comments by Cameron. It is clear many in Pakistan are very angry about this. That country has been the main victim of the Afghan disaster, as many have viewed the Pakistan Government as an extension of The West and a huge increase in terrorist activity has resulted in opposition to the Pakistan Government and a widespread destabilisation of the country. Their army has fought and lost huge numbers on behalf of America and Britain's War On Terror. So that is the thanks the normal, peaceful people of Pakistan get; Cameron slapping them down, when they're already on their knees. Most are moderate and not religious fundamentalists, contrary to popular belief in the West. And for Cameron to say this on the day of their worse-ever air crash is insensitive to say the least.
  • I didn't see even ONE headline either on BBC or on here - the two news channels I read regularly. As for 'what needs saying' how about the lies about Iraq war ? British soliders are still there as part of the illegal occupation aren't they ? and how about the lies that invasion of Afghanistan was based upon ? Wanna see a nutty thing going on in the world ? here you have it. Cameroon blaming Pakistan for UK's own blunders and loses.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Come on mr david cameron its time to pull our troops out of afghanistan and send them in to india along with our american friends so we can bomb the indians and help set up khalistan for the sikhs who have suffred enough at the hands of the hindus its about frredom and democracy and we owe ot to the sikhs to form khalistan the time has come
  • alf001
    It is laughable that Britain has a self declared Junior Prime Minister,who knows as much about diplomacy as he does about Britain's role in the Battle of Britain in 1940. In an attempt to cover up for his obvious ineptitude as a credible world leader on the same stage as Obama , and making even George Bush Junior look more intelligent than himself , David Cameron , believes that by annoying Pakistan he can depend on support of the right wing who couldn't care less about how stupid he can sound , as long as he can make a sound.
  • chandrabhan
    I agree the British are 'Ungrateful buffoons'. After looting India for 200 years and causing death of 10 million Indians (6 Millions during the Great manmade famine of bengal in 1943-45) to feed the Allied troops, you have accepted your leader to be buffoon. India funded 8.9% of WWii cost number 2 after the might US and the way you guys shafted the Indians by giving silver at exorbitant prices set off the BOP was criminal. Actually Lot of the britishers should have been tried as war criminals, had my own country leaders had some balls. A tiny speck of island with 60 million residents, with no sun and omni present rain, Britain's time has come. The 'Great game' played out by Caroe and others on India by gifting a piece of land to Islamists and pandering to them to punish Congress non cooperation in WWII is devouring the player. Do you get enough to eat in the bankrupt nation? Do you have a job? Now you don't have a wealthy India to loot anymore. Karma is catching up with you as the way we say here. Had I been an Indian PM, I would thrown that Banana lover Milliband out of the country into Arabian sea along for making those comments. I am waiting for the day, When 'Londonistan' turns haram for Queen without burqa, wont have to wait for long though
  • daveyah2002
    No you exported your violence. Those exports now consider you fair game as unbelievers too and it's not nice is it.
  • billmarden
    Cameron could have 50 years of experience but he will still be a two faced idiot. The 'charmer' in him fighting back the xenophobe.
  • How many norther provices does Pakistan have ??? I am from Pakistan but perhaps you can tell me about the northern provinces ? The area which are answerable to no government weren't answerable to the British colonial occupiers either and they knew it. Read about the FCR - Frontier Crimes Regulations and see how the British responded to FATA which refused to be anwerable to them. The truth hurts yes, thats what evident from your post. Tell me if there was any violence in Pakistan before Pakistan joined hands with the west ?? be it the war to fight off Soviets or now to fight the 'insurgents'. Yes most of the violence is perpetrated by Muslims but do you wonder why ? because Muslims have joined hands with the West which is massacring en masse the fellow Muslims. Divide and Rule comes to mind. Don't you think ??
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Mate we have plenty of christian and catholic terrorists and suicide bombers in great britain of course the invaders if they came to attack us and there media would call us those names to suit there agenda the same for jewish,hindu and sikh terrorists and suicide bombers thats what we would describe them or any foreign invaders who went to israel or india and bombed them senseless but in reality they would be freedom fighters standing up to the invader thats what afghanistan is doing do you think if we were attacked in england we would be any diffrent i dont think so and you can bet your bottom dollar scotland would help us!
  • Haha ever heard of the UN resolutions ? the promises Nehru and his government made to the Kashmiri people ? do you even know the mechanism through which South Asia was partitioned into Pakistan and India ? You are watching too much of bollywood.....Sir.
  • busysignal
    I wont dignify your silly comment with a response.
  • Atheism! What has religion got to do with my response! I never knew Atheists were so zealous of their religion or correctly speaking lack of religion. I am a happy Muslim, I am not that religious and I dont agree with what many Muslims are doing but Islam in its pure form is enough for me and I will in turn would like to invite you to Islam! Even if I werent a muslim, I would have opted for Judaism or Buddhism because to me honestly that this entire World got created, Ozone protected us from harmful UV rays, Human beings respiratory, reproductory, nervous systems and this entire Life Cycle & Chain doesnt seem to be a coincidence! As for you asking me to provide compelling evidence, I dont have any but do you have any? The point is that I dont trust ISI but US and UK have no business in Afghanistan, so this International politics is just a mess of lies and deceits. And if someone like Cameron tries to act some like honest person when he in fact is not only responsible for killings of Iraqis and Afghans everyday but also British soldiers, I just dont get the point! He is only saying this because he needs to please the Indians at Pakistan's expense to get business from them. As for your other post, about financial institutions control, you sound like Alex Jones to me. I have heard these conspiracy theories before, I partially agree with them! But these theories have never managed to explain to me that why only Muslims have to suffer the most, whether its Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Bosnia, Afghanistan or Iraq?
  • Factually Incorrect! India still is one of the largest receiver of British aid for development and poverty reduction projects!
  • "PM with the balls to stand up for the UK on the world stage against the US " Hehe! Do you know what he said about Lockerbie bomber release in US and He also described England as the "Junior Partner"!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Crikey so yout telling me and others that its all a fantasy there were 3000 sikhs murdred in 1984 at the golden temple but lets pretend that never happend shall we and sweep it unde the carpet goodness me many sikjs have been fighting to create khalistan there own independant country and i agree with them im hopeing that our goverment along with the americans go in and bomb india and help the sikhs out after all where going all about spreding democracy and freedoms for ordinary people so its time to help the sikhs out!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    mate this clown only got 36 percent of the vote thats all he represents in great britain he has to hold hands with the lib dems what a shambles!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Aditya its very simple mate you could call any group of people any name you want in afghanistan it used to be the mujahedeen now they call them taliban the same for india what name do you want to use hindustani or khalistan or tamil makes no diffrence if we in britain and america went and invaded india ordinary people would defend there homeland its a natural instinct just as we would if say the germans or italians for instance came over to england or britain scotland would help us and vice versa many of us would be labeled terroists when i fact we would be freedon fighters like the taliban if we went in to india and bomed it senseless do you think the brtish indians and sikhs would not do terrorist attacks on britain?
  • 'You exported your violence' Give me one example.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    You should take a trip down memory lane mate when back in 1984 hindus murdred 3000 sikhs at the golden temple and raped the mother and sisters of many of those men and still no justice 20 years on this all happend in india where david cameron went to visit its amazeing how hindus are trying to sweep this under the carpet i watched the sikh story and it was scandalous what happend its no wonder sikhs are trying to fornm there own country called khalistan in punjab i hope our goverment and mr cameron and the americans go in and bomb india in the name of freedom and democracy so sikhs and finally have justice
  • And all the miseries of Muslims countries are the spawn of US and UK. How about that ?
  • Just like you have been brainwashed by your own country ?? Last time I heard believing in whatever one wants is one's own business, thats called freedom you know. As for those who carry out terror acts, they are mere criminals. Leave your prejudice aside and you will see the truth.
  • Giving out a peace to Islamists ? and Kashmir is legally Indian ? you are having a laugh aren't you ? which law you are talking about when you say 'legally' ? I wonder.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    well said mate fully agree
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Crikey can you blame the poor sikhs for not doing more and being more forcefull when the indian goverment and the hindus murdred 3000 sikhs by burning them alive and rapeing the wifes and sisters can you blame them just go on you tube and look at the feeling amongst sikhs who can only have a voice who live outside of idia man y in britain who want to go back home to there own country khalistan but because what happend they are liveing in fear like prisoners in a concentration camp in punjab what happend to the sikhs was like a modern day version of the holocaust in 1984 and our goverment stood back and did nothing i feel disgusted and shamed we allowe that to happen thats why we need to go in and help form khalistan for sikhs so they can get justice
  • chandrabhan
    Mate since you can write,i assume that you are literate not necessarily educated. Check out the aid money that you have given to India last year for space program, 1.2 Million dollars. Do you know how much of money India has received in past wo years as Aid, under 5 million Dollars. A bankrupt nation with a Debt to GDP of 186% giving aid, thats nice joke. In case i start calculating the kind of wealth britain took away from india, it will come to around $2+ trillion dollars in NPV, that is more than your entire economy. So just chill. I understand you are either a Paki lover or Khalistani yourself. We have a sikh prime minister by the way and if they are tortured why does he not do anything for his co-religionists? Bombing India? Ukstan hahahahaha, you wimps can't control 30 million afghans with 6 millions weapons, how would control 1.2 billion Indians with 15 millions weapons in civilian hands and forget a armed strength of 2 million men in uniform. You piss in front of half a million Pakis. If wishes were horses then beggars would have rode. I see one trying.
  • sona50
    i ve heard of many things and have also read many things - what is wrong with pakistan? surely, there are some well informed and educated ones in that country with sharper intellectual grasp and reach than on display here btw, khalistan still does not attract a plurality of skh support, there is not a problem with a khlestan province which would be carved out of pujab but there wasn't and still isn't a plurality of support for this - you know nothing about india or its secular state maxim, so stop spouting ignorance
  • SID_VICIOUS
    If telling the truth means im a daily star reader then im guilty as charged i admit it!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Mate the truth can be a very difficult thing to except especially when it hits a raw nerve!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Wow really so 3000 peole being murdred and burned alive was just communal rights carried out by the hindus and indian goverment of there own people the sikhs while the wifes and sisters of these men were raped im amazed its no wonder there has been no justice for the sikhs they have been looking to set up khalistan for a long time but our goverment has chased oil and resources in other countries thanks to our america friends but im hopeing we go in and bomb india next and give freedom and democracy to the many sikhs in punjab and all over the word who are looking for justice its been to long that we have neglected this injustice its time to stop the bilions in aid going to india to fund the space programme and help set up the nation of khalistan
  • SID_VICIOUS
    All religions are peacefull allways have been allways will be its only human beings that do what they do and cause misery in the world under the name of religions that causes misery in the wold but we all know thats the way it has been through history people will distorte and manipulate things to suit the agenda
  • daveyah2002
    ALL of the suicide bombers in the UK are the spawn of Islam. Most of them have had a stint in .... Pakistans madrassas.
  • Exactly what the cause of the problem is! Revenge of Muslims. Defence of Sikhism, Christianity, Judaism etc. Can't you see where the World is wrong?
  • You know Jamil, I'm not in support of Cameron or his comments. Having said that I'm sure he has more access to "hard facts" than you or I. His comments, whether or not we agree or disagree can hardly be called "retarted" either. I don't believe anyone of any intellect or reason has anything against Pakistan or its people and that goes generally for all of humanity. My arguments are based solely upon the very hard evidence of religious indoctrinations of all sorts and the horrors that they cause( have caused)the World. All religions believe that they are the chosen ones and that when the World ends they will be saved. But who would be saved? But let me ask you: what "hard evidence" do you have that Cameron is wrong? And, while I'm at it, what evidence do you have concerning, God, Allah, Buddha or anything else deemed to be superior exists?
  • Chaotopia
    Pakistan is a Pariah state - a barbaric, violent theocracy dominated by dark age supersitions, primitive myths and it regularly exports terrorism to the rest of the world. Compare Pakistan and India - both nations born in August 1947; one is prosperous and a rising star in Asia, trying to export its knowledge to the world, the other is an unstable basket case which has spent more than half its existence under military rule. It is a tremendous shame for the rest of the world that the US allowed itself to be side tracked with the strategic mistake in Iraq (where Al Qaeda terrorists were ruthlessly suppressed by Saddam Hussein who didn't have to concern himslef with their human rights) and didn't, instead, follow through on it's threat to "Bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/536... This really wouldn't have taken very long and at least all military efforts would have been directed to the the region where all Islamic terrorist activity is concentrated and where the terrorist training camps are actually located. British born Jihadis often receive their training in Pakistan under the cover of "weddings" so this is the very first thing that our government needs to tackle. All immigration and "dual nationality" for this country needs to be immediately suspended and all incoming and out going traffic from Pakistan need to be subjected to passenger profiling as a matter of national security. The US needs to increase the level of Drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan so that none of our troops are ever put in any unnecessary risk regardless of collaterial damage (this is a war after all). The US and the UK need to help India as it will become a critically important ally when it comes to taking out Pakistan's nuclear capability. Bunker busters will be required (as they will when Israel takes out Iran's nuclear capability in exactly the same way that they did with Syrias) ground invasion will probably be necessary and we need the full support of India as an ally to do what should have been done a very long time ago. After the absurd calamity of his speech in Turkey, David Cameron is absolutely right about Pakistan and is only saying what everyone knows to be true. The real question is what is going to be done about it (I believe that this is the wholey legitimate question that Hamid Karzai is asking).
  • Chaotopia
    Pakistan is a Pariah state - a barbaric, violent theocracy dominated by dark age supersitions, primitive myths and it regularly exports terrorism to the rest of the world. Compare Pakistan and India - both nations born in August 1947; one is prosperous and a rising star in Asia, trying to export its knowledge to the world, the other is an unstable basket case which has spent more than half its existence under military rule. It is a tremendous shame for the rest of the world that the US allowed itself to be side tracked with the strategic mistake in Iraq (where Al Qaeda terrorists were ruthlessly suppressed by Saddam Hussein who didn't have to concern himslef with their human rights) and didn't, instead, follow through on it's threat to "Bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/536... This really wouldn't have taken very long and at least all military efforts would have been directed to the the region where all Islamic terrorist activity is concentrated and where the terrorist training camps are actually located. British born Jihadis often receive their training in Pakistan under the cover of "weddings" so this is the very first thing that our government needs to tackle. All immigration and "dual nationality" for this country needs to be immediately suspended and all incoming and out going traffic from Pakistan need to be subjected to passenger profiling as a matter of national security. The US needs to increase the level of Drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan so that none of our troops are ever put in any unnecessary risk regardless of collaterial damage (this is a war after all). The US and the UK need to help India as it will become a critically important ally when it comes to taking out Pakistan's nuclear capability. Bunker busters will be required (as they will when Israel takes out Iran's nuclear capability in exactly the same way that they did with Syrias) ground invasion will probably be necessary and we need the full support of India as an ally to do what should have been done a very long time ago. After the absurd calamity of his speech in Turkey, David Cameron is absolutely right about Pakistan and is only saying what everyone knows to be true. The real question is what is going to be done about it (I believe that this is the wholey legitimate question that Hamid Karzai is asking).
  • and what 'hard evidence' does Cameroon have for his retarded comment against Pakistan ?
  • timspooner
    Let's be real, anything a Bristish PM has to say can only be viewed as unreliable and self-serving. Next thing he will be on a plane to Islamabad,saying that he was taken out of context, he did not mean what he was reported to have said , Pakistan is a great friend of the UK in fighting terrorism etc. These comments in India should perhaps be best thought of as those a kid hiding behind his big brother and calling out insults to other kids. When he is alone again, he will show his real colours............
  • A large part of those billions ( about 9-10 ) were actually the REIMBURSEMENT of money that Pakistan was spending on fighting the US's and UK's war. Did you know that ? Then a large part of whatever the Pakistani government recieved, ended up in the bank accounts of this dictator which the champions of democracy were supporting to the full against the wishes of 170 million Pakistanis. Any comments ?
  • A brave man who doesn't know what he is talking about.
  • busysignal
    From Disqus Fri Jul 30 09:15:40 2010 X-Apparently-To: fhamaty@yahoo.com via 76.13.9.81; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:15:41 -0700 Return-Path: <> Received-SPF: neutral (mta1048.mail.re4.yahoo.com: domain of is neutral about designating 67.228.244.115 as permitted sender) X-YMailISG: k1BAb3gcZAoJwI_mMGGMgN9e..throfywrjnM94fEHqzSy2N GU5PiiEHR0KlbdlkIcuBPsyjAoX4cBwq4V2ggAlW4XsUkuRxlK3JbOUUUnTP YNcIXQnpfqNb1guTO8qILNGtTcBSspB2Sn2fEjTfYetzoWqs3xekZh6Cs9GV zWkSJ3RGaBa8nzpurzbeN75llljF_3oiIbEb_oaQQFRSLt83xgAeoqAljcwH Q7KGNEyg.Nyj8ZqRhRQM5zpiPASCXSejTfT37CLv87AYQK54FXwboRo39Msb IuLmusvcsfVYGeCtVdOc5bbaskw.cayPex8B__EYvF2zGKcby3sfuYiVShsK glM0zjUrjZjANqnfXv9UPOmuTjmRFqxGRpAG4aZz0lPSFSkgIeBqKnSTh8_l 3cCzdNiFyXjsoC7FeSj3Lp4ToeoYPP6Ko9WLbDtcLSyGkmFibhF9yMtlh3z0 Pbu4C9My4c8ePVEMB_N1sd7CDQzIY9HZawn.Nj5jxrbAe0GV2vJvXYGOZt1L O1lTLoELJC4MC.48gJd1oIAefD.X X-Originating-IP: [67.228.244.115] Authentication-Results: mta1048.mail.re4.yahoo.com from=disqus.net; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=disqus.net; dkim=neutral (no sig) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO disqus.net) (67.228.244.115) by mta1048.mail.re4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:15:40 -0700 Received: from hapenny.disqus.net (unknown [10.36.127.136]) by disqus.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE56940DB for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:15:40 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [independentnews] Re: Pakistan hits back with attack on Cameron's 'inexperience'
  • Hahaha - and you are getting late for your school, run to the bus !
  • There have been many kidnaps, murders and rapes of Muslims too in Pakistan and nothing has been done about them so your pointing out the minorities is only a try to twist the facts - and its not gonna work. Pakistanis couldn't care less about how the Indians run their country so stop fantasising yourself that Pakistanis would be interested in what happens in India unless of course they get blind to, as they play it down by calling it 'communal riots', in their own country and would moan about what happens in Pakistan - in which case they are bound to get a reply.
  • 'Accomodate that WITHIN the Union' that is sooo Indian ! How about the plebiscite in Kashmir that India promised ? the promise that it will allow Kashmiris to decide if they want to be with India or Pakistan ? remember ?? or perhaps you have never heard of that ?
  • Why do you think no one should be compared to Taliban ? they are freedom fighters fighting for the freedom of their country just like some Sikh elements did try to start a movement for the independence of East Punjab. Ever heard of Operation Blue Star ?? what was that about ? So you don't know that it was US and UK ( along with Saudi Arabia ) who funded, armed and trained Jihadis to fight against Soviets ? you are in serious need of getting some knowledge first before you come here and comment. Kargil happened because of the Kashmir dispute. Had India kept its promises to the Kashmiri people and to the whole world under the UN resolutions, there wouldn't have been any Kargil, in fact there wouldn't have been any wars between Pakistan and India at all. So you figure out where the blame lies. Mumbai - where is the proof it was ISI ? NDTV and Star News tell you that ??
  • Well just the fact that you condemn my "rant against religion" is evident enough of your decision making process.
    But my friend, I agree totally with you about the "fraudulent indoctrination of the "West".
    But you are wrong in your assertion that religion wasn't the cause or played a major part.
    All were sworn under God, King/Queen and country. Even the USA is hugely influenced religious lobbyist.
    My "rant" as you call it is based on solid facts, reason and probability unlike religion of ANY sort. And what are you talking about? Religion as you call it is to blame if the children are indoctrinated well before they can make decisions for themselves.
  • What is happening to Pakistan today is EXACTLY what happened to Cambodia in the Vietnam war. Americans used all their might only to get their ass beaten by the Vietnamese and Cambodia became a casualty in the war. They were saying exactly the same about Cambodia that there are training camps, insurgents are crossing into Vietnam to fight Americans and all that. They bombed Cambodia eventually killing a million of them. Of course, that didn't save their ass and they still had to withdraw shamefully, something they will always remember.
  • Oh really ? 'well documented and very well known' from where ?? Which government circles are you talking about ? are you a part of the government circles ? and from where do you get the 'facts' ? Wikileaks ? have you read all the 92000 ?? You are not realing it but this post proves you a clown, it shows how capable you mentally are. Look through my posts and see what do they leaks actually tell about ISI. And by the way, if ISI can beat CIA, RAW, MIs and Mossad working together in Afghanistan, then thats a big big big compliment. Don't you think ?? I would love ISI to be that amazing !
  • That's exactly the point! And lets be clear, Israel and its Jewish financial institutes are prime movers in the World's conflicts. Just get rid of this bullshit belief system. Think and reason for yourselves instead of listening to the bunkum that religion serves up to keep control. I'm anti religion of ALL types! Atheism allows you to think for yourself based on facts and reasonable probability. There is NOTHING in any of the religions that is reasonable, probable or even possible! Just myth and fear!
  • Looks like you have never heard of the Khalistan movement. Have some read.
  • "me thinks you protesteth too much". Are you in denial Nabil or do you recognise the trait in yourself? Instead of calling all and sunder futile names get on with some solid. clear and compelling arguments for your case. As long as religion and its many indifferences exist there will always be unnecessary conflict. Convert to Atheism" and learn to think for yourself based on hard evidence.
  • Your rant against religion is laughable to say the least. How about the fraudulent indoctrination of everyone in the West about the 'evil empire' or the vice versa ? was any religion involed in there ? NO ! Blaming religion for what people would do thinking they are doing for religion is people's own fault, not that of religion. I am from Pakistan, I was brought up in a religious family and a very conservative part of Pakistan, both my parents are illeterate but that has nothing to do with the decisions I have made in my life. How about that ?
  • Israel was also formed on the basis of nothing but religion. Perhaps you would share your view on that ?
  • Unhelpful? Of course. But why on Earth does religion and/or sectarianism have any place at all in today's World? It is beyond any reasonable doubt that the control and propaganda dealt out by religious zealousness has caused almost all of histories horrors. State machinery, as you call it is steered by religions! Take a look at the USA, at Tony Blair's Britain, at the Catholic church, at Islam at Sikhism, Buddhism tell me that they don't influence the very existence of politics and for all the wrong reasons. War should never be cause for profit although history is full of profitable wars with religion and "ethnic cleansing" (read religious indifference) the prime excuse. Religion is loosing its hold in the West people are waking up to the "bullshit" and fear of an almighty, omnipotent god and its time the others woke up. But then that's not in the interests of the Jewish led market is it?
  • There is nothing peaceful about or in religion. "Ethnic cleansing" is another euphemism for religious genocide. Religious differences, caused mostly by ignorance and early indoctrination, is the bain of humanity. Time to teach children how to think not what based on fear of an unseen and highly improbable god (or messiah or prophet).Only then will be free of this chronic megalomania.
  • Look at the reasons that Pakistan was formed in the first place. Religious differences. The majority of Indians and Pakistanis are ignorant. Can neither read or write and don't have ready access (or perhaps are even interested) in how other cultures and peoples live.
    All they know is what they are brought up on, religious difference!
    It was highly evident in Britain and Northern Ireland, kids indoctrinated with hate for others.
    The sooner the World gets rid of religions the better.

    Other than that India has a middle class of more than 300 million! More than the "mighty" USA. That's where the immediate future lies.
    Give China ten more years and that's where the next massive market emerges. Britain and the US will soon be (are) also rans as long as economies are in the hands of predominantly jewish financial institutions such as The Federal Reserve, The IMF, The Central European Bank and yes, The old lady of Threadneedle Street herself, the Bank of England.
    That's where your money and pensions has gone. Check it for your selves and wake up!
  • sona50
    it is unhelpful when the state machinery identifies with religion and sectarianism - if they are kept apart, over time religion loses its hold as has already happened in many places since the end of the dark ages of course war is profitable, particularly when both the US and uk have managed to export almost all its manufacturing chasing cheap labour, leaving wmd production as the only viable exports
  • sona50
    it is notr disagreements with my views that brand you a clown but what you spout on your keyboards - how many sikhs do you know? none, i bet but don't think you many friends either
  • sona50
    it was never swept under the carpet, there was an enquiry - there have been many kidnaps, murders and forced conversions of minors in pakistan and not a single thing has been done about any of them also, india acknowledges such communal riots, while they occur, are not what is either condoned or desired but never hear a peep from selfrighteous bigots to the east of that country try persuading any country to go and bomb india on behalf of sikhs - you'll find the ones fighting your plans would be many many sikhs - no indian wants pakistanis to tell them how to run themselves, they are doing a far grander job of that than pakistan has ever managed don't presume to take sid vicious' name - at least he had some talent, all you have blind hate and no brains
  • See, we all fight amongst ourselves when those who are sitting back enjoying all this, that is the privately owned Fed, IMF, Central European bank are rubbing their hands in glee. Take a look at the real terrorists! The big financial institutes who fund it all.
  • The only conversions required are to free thought and common sense (not that its common any more) and get a massive swing away from religious indoctrinations and the horror they cause. These regional conflicts and terrorism are products of the privately owned money. War and its machinery creates 25% of the Worlds wealth! Of course its profitable.
  • His comments about Gaza WERE headline news! What a ridiculous conspiracy theory. Both incidents show that he's prepared to say what needs saying - it is certainly risky diplomatically - but it's nice to have a PM who doesn't have his head in the sand about the nutty things going on in the world - whoever is behind them.
  • Northern Alliance lived in India during the years of the Taliban Government in Afghanistan. They are funded, trained and backed by India, so it comes as no surprise that they would bad mouth Pakistan. Karzai is India's bitch.
  • Cameron's comments about Gaza would have been headline news, it has now emerged that the Jewish lobby threatened to withdraw funding to the Conservative party if Cameron did not help move the comments about Gaza from the headlines, so he resorted to Paki-bashing and with the help of the BBC has created new headlines.
  • The allegations made against Pakistan in the leaked documents were made by the Northern Alliance. ? ?The Northern Alliance lived in India during the years Afghanistan was ruled by the Taliban. The Northern Alliance are trained and funded by India, so it comes as no surprise they are anti-Pakistan. ? ?When Afghans / Iraqis make claims against the US or UK why don't we believe them then, why does the Western media not give them the sort of coverage that they are giving the claims against Pakistan. ? ?It is accepted fact that India uses the consulates it has in Afghanistan ( all very close to the border with Pakistan ) to launch terror attacks in Pakistan's Balochistan province. How does Cameron see this? ? ?Hindu fundamentalists with the collusion of the state Government massacred 2,000 Muslims in India, no one has yet been tried for this. How does Cameron see this? ? ?80,000 Muslims murdered in Jammu Kashmir by the Indian state, daily kidnapping, rapes and murders commited by the Indian state. How does Cameron see this? ? ?The US announced a couple of years ago that it was going to fund anti-state elements in Iran, setting aside $400 million for this, it has been proven that recent terror attacks carried out in Iran were by groups funded by the US. How does Cameron see this? ? ?Finally what is Cameron's view on the terror attacks on Iraq carried out by the UK and US? ? ?The mass coverage being given to allegations against Pakistan is to divert attention away from the allegations against US and UK troops, and also divert attention away from Cameron's c omments on Gaza.
  • lifeisfun
    Sid-Vicious sounds like a sun reader.....please....the world is waiting for more of your wisdom......or is that wisDUMM
  • lifeisfun
    Sid sounds like a daily star reader, please more of your worldly wisDUMM
  • Mr. Milliband should look into himself. What a idiot he is.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    Oh wow so im a clown why cos you dont agree with my point of view thats charming you do realise we give billions in aid to india each year while they have a space programme and the majority of the population live on under a pound or is it 50 pence a day that concerns me more than what our dopey prime minister has to say and i will be writeing him a letter asking him when he is going to take our army along with the americans to go in to india and help the sikhs form khalistan
  • well Nabil, you do have to factor in the median and mode.
  • This bafoon is not going to be PM for long
  • sona50
    the bigger clown is actually you and people like you and just to prove my point you made the stupidest response possible below - when did you convert to sikhism?
  • sona50
    if sikhs want a state of their own, which currently a plurality of them don't, the union of india is flexible enough to accommodate that within the union stop fantasising to justify the unjustifiable and you know what, you are no sikh
  • busysignal
    From Disqus Fri Jul 30 02:43:14 2010 X-Apparently-To: fhamaty@yahoo.com via 76.13.9.69; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:43:14 -0700 Return-Path: <> Received-SPF: neutral (mta1029.mail.mud.yahoo.com: domain of is neutral about designating 67.228.244.115 as permitted sender) X-YMailISG: 6iCc5WwcZArhcrDBFm1r70ocHGr._lzAz73V8DnEKj118seL O24JxYs5Ot6ZDKYd1swTTbL5tas5LlBxdGIYm1tWcli46qiTazDBElhIKais VfDVJ6CVs.0ZQzmJrUrxHf.CqviioNJB_xLBf4Fnibr6GrcoT2QrgcsO3HGN 0IVgbQAlNxDgDHo8.mc1LH6.FPp4uCDpMZiupKte8r87ibyxVjgBkx2WE4vQ TjOn6jnozQ7RhqKPAtODLXGhngYgqwe2KlxVtFGqX94mpeqbiFBrG5XZR3vz 9JWXwjtu7dUzsyE61QvEEBm5UfiJVNobBmEyjP7AXoS7c_eBu27Ek1p56Nza E3uT9yDVWZWDeDr39YdSYSthmyGCbY8O9qQMaOUx8MAH7kyM1JJ07gco.O7n aLA8ZU_tMgkFbJyOO8IvJuxNVBXysTE31i5l87s1f_XMLo5HUtC2tSKkQlsf gI4wkZd.tjEOMTgys0amAYoiUjJzkKcaVCLrFVAlZIEaW97L1pFZA0Oq5waR y_pSUGFGxC2Rx51e7Cj.CNXs6JB4 X-Originating-IP: [67.228.244.115] Authentication-Results: mta1029.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=disqus.net; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=disqus.net; dkim=neutral (no sig) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO disqus.net) (67.228.244.115) by mta1029.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:43:14 -0700 Received: from hapenny.disqus.net (unknown [10.36.127.136]) by disqus.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F7594684 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:43:14 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [independentnews] Re: Pakistan hits back with attack on Cameron's 'inexperience'
  • and Apparently Stupidity is quite common!
  • Ever thought where they got those 'Stinger' missiles from??
  • Not sure where they grew up, But I am very sure they grew up on American and English money to fight so-called Evil Soviet Communists! This is a fact, dont bury your head in the sand!
  • SID_VICIOUS
    What do you think would happen if we went in and bombed india to catch the punjabis sikhs for instance who are trying to form khalistan a country of there own im sure there would be terrorist attacks if us and america went in or perhaps if we went in to help the punjabi sikhs to form a country of there own im certain there would be terrorist attacks from the other side and places like sri lanka would get caught up in the conflict
  • This type of statements at this level can reverse the efforts made by Pakistan Goverment and Army to tell their people its their war. Ground reality is totally opposit to the statement made by PM.Pakistan has suffered around 2700 army and 9,000 civil casualties since the start of war whereas suicide attacks were unheard in Pakistan before 2001.If some one claim to be very straight forward, how can he miss the current situation in kashmir,may be lack of information again.
  • I hope this does not harm UK and Pakistani relations
  • frankness in a politician is rare.
  • Nabi18
    please check out http://www.islamicsolutions.com/islam-the-peaceful-religion/
  • Jon
    You tell them Mr Cameron, a brave man!

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