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Bruce Anderson: Let's be honest... legalise drugs and society would benefit

This is a war that cannot be won. And the suppression of David Nutt won't help

It appears to be impossible to have a rational debate about drugs. David Nutt, the head of the government's advisory council on drugs, argued that alcohol and tobacco were more dangerous than some drugs which are currently illegal. That point seems so obvious as to be barely worth stating. Prof Nutt also said that it was silly to upgrade cannabis, from class C on the illegal drugs register to class B. The maximum penalty for using a class B substance is five years in prison. Does anyone believe that any judge would ever pass such a sentence for smoking marijuana? So what is the point of pretending to buttress a law that is already widely flouted with even more pains and penalties which will never be enforced?

Before taking such an absurd decision, ministers might have considered the experience of the Black Code in the early 19th century. By mandating ferocious penalties for trivial offences, it brought the law into disrepute and undermined the penal justice system, until Sir Robert Peel – no softie – replaced the savage and inspissated nonsense with a sensible criminal code. But an examination of precedents would require thought, reading and a knowledge of history. Under this government, those are class A crimes.

Instead, the Professor was sacked, which has annoyed some of his colleagues, who see no point in continuing to assist a government which has no interest in reasoned debate. This does not mean that politicians must always accept expert advice. Sir Christopher Kelly and Sir Thomas Legg should be treated with much more scepticism than they are likely to receive. A minister is perfectly entitled to say that he had received some advice from Professor so-and-so, for whom he had considerable respect – and that on this occasion, he respectfully disagreed. But there is no point in asking academics to serve on a committee if their intellects are to be subjected to a three-line whip.

Moreover, drugs policy is in urgent need of hard thinking. Our present arrangements are a mess. So let us start with fundamentals. Until the 1960s, our legal system was overshadowed by pre-libertarian theories of the state, which criminalised breaches of Christian morality and started from the assumption that governments were entitled to regulate the private behaviour of adults. As that has all gone over the past few decades, what theory of the state now permits governments to prohibit adults from taking drugs? There is only one intellectually respectable answer to that question: none.

This does not mean that those who wish to retain prohibition are bereft of arguments. Their counterblast might run along the following lines. "Intellectual respectability be damned. You are talking as if the drugs question could be resolved in an academic seminar. Go a few miles from intellectually respectable London to disintegrating London, where the wreckage of David Cameron's broken society is outward and visible, where so many forces are already at work to accelerate social breakdown – and then tell me that you would like to add to the problem by legalising drugs".

That is what many judges and policemen believe, based on their experience of trying to hold society together, and it is a powerful case. It is also a pragmatic one – none the worse for that – and as such, open to challenge on evidential grounds. The evidence does seem to suggest that the present policy is failing. Drugs are readily available, while drug-users mug and burgle to sustain their habit. In her forthcoming study of underclass youth, Harriet Sergeant depicts the allure of drug dealing: its corrupting effect on the de-socialised young. If no one who wants drugs has to go without them, while the illicit trade is worth hundreds of millions of pounds, it is hard to see why legalisation would make things worse.

There is a further point. The drug menace is not only impairing the quality of life in British cities. It is wrecking countries. Trinidad, Guyana, Jamaica: those really are broken societies. Colombia and Mexico have had dreadful difficulties. Admittedly, this arises far more from the lucrative American market than from the much smaller British one. But if we British concluded that the current war on drugs could not be won, we would be doing the world a favour.

This is how legalisation could work. Allow adults (photo ID necessary) to buy limited supplies of their chosen poison from licensed and regulated outlets. Ban all advertising. Tax the stuff as highly as is possible without creating a black market. Announce an amnesty for all drug crimes, in the hope that the skilled operators would take the chance to go legit.

Increase the penalties for illicit drug-trafficking, to include impoverishment. Anyone involved in selling drugs to children would lose all his assets, however acquired, and would not leave prison if there was any suggestion that he had some cash stashed away. Step up police operations, hoping to catch new dealers while they were still inexperienced. Employ the SAS to eliminate foreign traffickers who were trying to supply the British criminals who remained in business.

The aim of these measures would not be the promotion of universal hippydom: still less, to bring the decadence of the late Roman Empire to the streets of South London. The intention is to reduce drug-related crime and to make it easier to deal with the criminal underclass. There might also be a fall in drug consumption, especially among children, whose supplies would be significantly interrupted. That said, there would be a price.

We can surely assume that there are some young adults who might be curious about drugs, but who do not like the idea of searching out dealers in insalubrious parts of town. They are also reluctant to run the risk of being arrested. There may not be many such persons: there must be some. After legalisation, the restraints are removed. So they try the stuff, and one or two of them turn out to have addictive personalities and turn into druggies.

Although there are those who insist that anyone who might become a druggie already has, legalisation is bound to create some new addicts, whose lives might be wrecked. This is not a pleasant thought. Then again, the individuals concerned would be adults, unlike many of those who are destroyed under the current arrangements. Adults are entitled to make their own choices.

One hundred and fifty years ago, John Stuart Mill published On Liberty. The passage of time has not diminished its radicalism. Mill realised that the desire to interfere with others' freedoms has deep roots in the human psyche. If it is denied one outlet, it will find another. Fifty years ago, homosexuals were persecuted. Recently, some half-witted police force wanted to persecute a woman who complained about the excesses of homosexual demonstrators. The rights to free speech and free expression can never be taken for granted, especially under this government. It might seem absurd to cite drug-taking in the same context as those dignified, noble freedoms. But freedom is freedom.

Mill could also remind us that you do not arrive at truth by suppressing opinions, even if they are unpopular. Admittedly, this government has hardly been successful in suppressing Prof Nutt, but it is now time for the opposite approach: a Royal Commission on drugs, to review all aspects of current policy, from philosophy to policing. David Nutt should certainly be a member.

More from Bruce Anderson

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I agree...
[info]folly_dodger wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 12:29 am (UTC)
I have held this view for a long time but have never put it as eloquently as this. Will this idea ever come to fruition though? How many are the opponents to the decrimanlisation and legalisation of drugs and how scared are our elected representatives of their votes? In a time when politicians are climbing over themselves to announce cuts, a bit more in the bank from a trade which will carry on regardless could go a long way.
Re: I agree...
[info]droogiebaby wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:35 am (UTC)
Don't be so selfish!

What do you suppose our boys in blue in Twickenham will do if more people thought like you?
Abusing kids is not only their main source of amusement, whether through stop and search or severe physical assault on suspicion of a certain smell but also their main raison d'etre.

Would you have police officers sitting around twiddling thumbs all day long?
Don't you realise that we need all the protection we can get?
Get real, dumbo!
Re: I DISAGREE - [info]justwent - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:36 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I DISAGREE - [info]cylusys - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Drug Health Warning
[info]king_farian wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:12 am (UTC)

The best warning a government can give is that 'Once you open your mind you cannot close it again'.

Or at least tell teenagers not too mix beer and spliffs.... beer & drugs... any old hippy would know that....

TOP ARTICLE ;')> Well Done ! lol
ANTI DRUGS A CHEAP AND NASTY VOTE WINNER
[info]nuzenight wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 04:22 am (UTC)
The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions, OR IS IT?. What right has one adult got to tell another how they can or cannot enjoy themselves. What arrogance. Let's be quite clear that the politicians in Britain are as corrupt as fuck. They are lying thieves, cheats and hypocrites. An intelligent and honest person would argue that drugs should be legalised today which means that these politicians are completely corrupt or suffering from some psychiatric disorder! I always remember a quote from a Nobel peace prize winner: The world is full of good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, what I don't understand is how good people can do bad things in the name of religion! But then, perhaps the likes of Go. Brown are not really religious or good in the first place, just evil. Well they vote for wars that kill women and children don't they or is it right to kill women and children as long as they are not English? By the way I am English stock through and through; I just don't like paedophiles and politicians who thinks it is all right to kill children in the name of war.
Flawed logic
[info]nickillinois wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:34 am (UTC)
While I agree that extending draconian drug laws to cannabis is silly, this article makes some quite baffling leaps of logic. Why does giving a heroin addict the ability to buy heroin legally mean he will not "mug and burgle" to pay for his habit? The drug will still have a cost and a serious addict will still be unable to function well enough to work. Also drugs (other than cannabis) are not THAT readily available except in a few inner city areas. In most towns in the UK you are not currently tempted to buy habit-forming hard drugs on the high street if you have a bad day in the same way as people might go for a pint; legalising drugs would create just that sort of situation.

Ultimately this is about a modern British obsession with the rights of the individual at the expense of his or her responsibilities. Being an "adult" in Bruce's terms does not entitle one to become a heroin addict or be stoned 24/7. Such a choice has obvious consequences for society and for one's family in terms of an individual's ability to contribute their fair share in work, taxes, caring for children and the elderly, and so on; it is willfully naive to pretend that taking addictive drugs does not have an effect on others. If you are unable to contribute because you are a drug addict, you are basically asserting that you have a right to have your drug habit paid for by ordinary, hard working people who pay for the NHS, benefits and so on. The fact that we already have two drugs with serious health effects in common use (alcohol and tobacco) should surely encourage us to not to add more substances to that list. The reason people who actually deal with drugs on the street as cited by Bruce (the police, judges, etc.) are opposed to it is not an opposition to "academic" debate per se, but rather a disillusionment with a certain type of academic debate that has become prevalent, in which the practical consequences of actions are ignored on the basis that theoretical "freedoms" are being threatened. A quick look through the history of countries with wide spread drug use might also be instructive: how about the opium problem that crippled parts of China in the early 20th century?
Missing the point
[info]explodingbadger wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 04:52 am (UTC)
The whole point of this debate IS about the practical consequences of drugs.

Alcohol and Tobacco are more dangerous than pot and ecstasy (its a known fact) and yet they are legal... if we are truly concerned about the practical consequences why are they legal ? Thousands of people die every year because of alcohol and tobacco. More than any other drugs. In addition the consequence of prohibition is the black market, making ordinary people into criminals, forcing heroin and crack addicts to lead criminal lifestyles to feed their habit. The way heroin coke crack addicts should be treated is as patients and part of their treatment may be administering their drugs in a clinic when necessary. In this way they dont need to lead a criminal lifestyle.
Re: Missing the point - [info]bleedingekk - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Missing the point - [info]freedon4sale - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Missing the point - [info]nickillinois - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 06:05 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]richard_hode - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:00 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]thelzdking - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]turk_diddler - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]briarwood - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]nickillinois - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 06:26 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]briarwood - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 04:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Broken Britain - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:42 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Broken Britain - [info]nickillinois - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]laconico - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]nickillinois - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 06:40 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]laconico - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 10:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]karachi747 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Flawed logic - [info]tedmuller - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:37 pm (UTC) Expand
THE DRUG PROBLEM
[info]another_g_o_m wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:41 am (UTC)
The core fallacy is to lump the whole subject together as "The drug problem".

There are two problems, the medical consequences of drug use, which apply equally to tobacco and alcohol, both a source of revenue for the government, and the criminal activity surrounding the manufacture and supply of banned substances.

As long as there is a demand for recreational drugs and the production and distribution of them remains so lucrative, banning them simply plays into the hands of the producers and distributors. The riskier the drug business becomes as a result of law enforcement, the higher the price and therefore the rewards. The law of supply and demand is recognised everywhere else. Why do governments think that it does not apply to drug use.

Many drugs are not particularly expensive to produce. Manufacture them and distribute them through controlled channels, as with alcohol and tobacco, and the rationale behind the illegal drugs trade would disappear. A line of cocaine costs pennies to produce. Make it available to those idiots who find snorting it clever at that price and it will instantly lose its appeal.

As for the cost of treatment for drug abuse, simply exclude it from treatments offered by the NHS and, given the financial problems currently experienced by the NHS, include treatment for alcohol and tobacco abuse in the exclusion.
Re: THE DRUG PROBLEM
[info]fastguyeddie wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:13 am (UTC)
Actual just add another point that no-one seems to have picked up on; another_g_o_m says there are two problems -Id Like to add a third which is cultivated land given over to drug production because its more lucrative than wheat etc and viable arable land demands are going to soar without South America being turned into a coca equivelent of the American mid-west.
As to the exclude alcohol and tobacco treatment from the NHS comment; please do; and while were about it lets exclude all preventable "illness" up to and including pregnancy - no NHS treatments, No NHS bugdet problems; The national overdraft will be paid off in no time assuming any of us live long enough.
not skunk
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:49 am (UTC)
I've tried it and it's EVIL; best stick to Afghan black- the champagne of dope;

skunk has really f**cked up my son, made him paranoid and seriously loopy. I'd make skunk class A
Re: not skunk
[info]explodingbadger wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 04:54 am (UTC)
Evil ? No you just need to smoke less of it. Personally heavily smoking skunk turned me into a freelance IT consultant. Go figure...
Re: not skunk - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: not skunk - [info]richard_hode - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:01 am (UTC) Expand
Re: not skunk - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:20 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info] - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: not skunk - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:42 am (UTC) Expand
Inconvenient Truth
[info]gary52 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:50 am (UTC)
My beef with all mainstream media is that they keep using the terms "alcohol and drugs", as if they were two distinct items. Alcohol IS a drug, so they should talk about "alcohol and other drugs". Let's allow the experts to classify alcohol, bet it would be an "A".

From Wikipedia:

Ethanol, also called ethyl alcohol, pure alcohol, grain alcohol, or drinking alcohol, is a volatile, flammable, colorless liquid. It is a psychoactive drug, best known as the type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages and in modern thermometers. Ethanol is one of the oldest recreational drugs. In common usage, it is often referred to simply as alcohol or spirits.
Re: Inconvenient Truth
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:27 am (UTC)
alcohol IS a dangerous drug; were it invented tomorrow it would immediately be made a class A drug; like heroin, it is addictive,like heroin and skunk it causes delusions, like heroin it destroys lives, both of the addicts and their families; like all drugs taking it is a matter of personal choice and freedom
personally I think that the taking of LSD should be made compulsory
An eminently sensible view
[info]logiccrimes wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 03:03 am (UTC)
Bravo, Bruce Anderson. An eloquent and lucid appraisal of the situation. Legalisation is the only moral and logical solution to the drugs issue. Criminalising people's natural desires does not solve the problem.The average person's interaction with weed confirms their belief that cannabis does little real harm. We all know too many people who use it occasionally and yet lead productive, crime free lives. Regulation and taxation with the resulting proceeds to genuine education of the real dangers of class A drugs will do more to remove drug-related crime and drug-related social problems. Perhaps Alan Johonson's political stupidity will have a silver lining if the debate gets elevated to this level.

Tom Porter
Singapore
[info]sergio_montes wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 03:48 am (UTC)
Very intelligent article! Seems hard to say more about the problem in less words than those. As has been written before "compare to lies, truth has the advantage of last a longer"
Or ban horse riding
[info]martin44 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:50 am (UTC)
At least there's a direct victim of that crime, the horse.
Re: Or ban horse riding
[info]karachi747 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:54 am (UTC)
what?
Reasonable
[info]stevvi wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:51 am (UTC)
I have agreed with the sentiment of the article for a long time but this:

"Increase the penalties for illicit drug-trafficking, to include impoverishment. Anyone involved in selling drugs to children would lose all his assets, however acquired, and would not leave prison if there was any suggestion that he had some cash stashed away. Step up police operations, hoping to catch new dealers while they were still inexperienced. Employ the SAS to eliminate foreign traffickers who were trying to supply the British criminals who remained in business."

is bizarre, especially the part about the police and the SAS, of all people.
ZANU Labour knows EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING
[info]marchmont wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:12 am (UTC)
Of all the mind boggling statements to escape the lips of Gordon Brown, his claim to want a ‘government of all the talents’ was far and away the most weird. Those of us who have know him since his Edinburgh University days know that he cannot stand to have really clever people near him. His Cabinet of clowns and buffoons, his kitchen cabinet of thugs and bloggers, his Gotterdammerung days chewing the Axminster in the No 10 Bunker, all tell the same story. When the PM says he wants a “debate” he means he wants you to listen in silence while he relates his version of some parallel universe. The only thing I find surprising about this fiasco is that seriously intelligent people such as Malloch Brown, Adair Turner, Digby Jones, David Nutt, etc could ever have believed that Bonkers Brown was going to listen to a word they said.
Well said
[info]jeanshaw wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:19 am (UTC)
As someone who would be regarded as right wing I can find nothing to disagree with in this article
You will never stop drug consumption, prohibition adds a spurious cachet of rebellion against authority particularly as anyone with an ounce of sense knows that many " leaders/celebrities " take /took drugs .
Quite frankly it should be legalised and provide a new source of revenue for the State.
[info]blahflowers wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC)
It's not only impossible to have a mature drugs debate in public but also in the Independent, where under one editorship decriminalisation is campaigned for and then, when a different editorial team realise their children are taking drugs they have a real middle-class flap and start writing stories about fictitious brands of 'super-strong skunk' in order to justify changing their stance.

It would be nice if this situation forces an acceptance that politics can ignore science or accept it, but to twist it to say something that is not true is unacceptable. As it is, it would seem that, as usual, drugs cause the most profound effects in people who don't take them.
Only once per lifetime
[info]richard_hode wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:07 am (UTC)
The use of "inspissated." The author has now used up his turn.
Legalising drugs
[info]schollb wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:24 am (UTC)
Has anyone researched statistics on the losses that would be incurred by the alcohol and tobacco industries if other less harmful but more fun-filled drugs were legalised. Aren't they (the industries) lobbying already. Does Lucky Strike still own the great marijuana fields of Mexico.
The primrose path
[info]democraticact wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:26 am (UTC)
The wider acceptance of democracy has made the last 30 years the most shameful in our history. We neglect the responsibility it puts on us, while our controllers do as they please. We have been taken down the primrose path to political oblivion. Drug taking reinforces the political apathy that elitism depends on. Marx's "opium of the people" is no longer a metaphor. We can't bring back the lives of all the thousands of children we have killed but we can begin to put right the gross social inequalities of these last 30 years. Go to: democraticbritain.org.uk - where without money, celebrity or media ownership - but with or without mind altering drugs - you can do as our culture demands.
Drugs and legalisation
[info]schollb wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
Has anybody gathered any statistics anpout the losses that would be incurred by the alcohol and tobaccco industries if safer and more fun-filled drugs were legalised. Are lobbies operating? In the 60's Lucky Strike bought up marijuana fields in Mexico. Do they still own them?
Grooooan
[info]quietzapple wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:28 am (UTC)
As ever Anderson has the wrong end of the stick in his maw.

No one has censored the intellect of Nut - or was that a doppelganger howwwling on tv at the weekend because he was sacked? Claiming that he had been sacked because the minister didn't understand the science?

Nutt's campaign re Cannabis, LSD & Ecstasy remains totally out of order because he must have been aware that many impressionable children will imagine, from the media accounts, that these dangerous drugs are ok, less harmful than alcohol, tobacco.

Such drugs alter mood, and any such are dangerous, not least because we live with the motor car.

Now every teen wannabe druggie has a stick to beat their parents with. I hope such parents let him know their views.
Re: Grooooan
[info]vmf916 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:37 am (UTC)
It's so sad that you have so completely missed the point. There are so many grave problems with your comment, namely, the fact that like so many people in this nation you continue to make statements as if they are empirical facts, despite clear scientific evidence to the contrary. "Such drugs alter mood, and any such are dangerous". Have you ever had an alcoholic beverage?? Are you telling us that alcohol doesn't alter the mood???
It's people like you who are the reason that changing the drug policy for the better is so damn difficult, you just don't listen. You are rooted in an ancient morality which has no bearing on the actual situation.
Every weekend when my friends and I go out drinking, something stupid happens. Some of the boys will get agressive, someone might get mugged as they are too drunk to prevent it happening. Someone goes home with a stranger; in any event I wake up feeling terrible all day. Contrast that to a night taking Ecstasy. I'd challenge you to find somene who has had a fight on E. Everyone is friendly, and so long as you don't take to much you're actually very alert. I'd be willing to suggest that driving on a small amount of E (ie one or two pills) would be much less problematic than driving drunk. Studies have proven that the same is true for cannibis.
So what if some teenagers feel more okay about trying these things? They're going to anyway, in fact, the fact that they're legal would probably alter the nature of this experimentation - peer pressure is always greatest to do prohibited acts.
I hope such parents are more able than you to change their views. It actually makes me so sad to read your comment as you don't really sound stupid, you've just completely, utterly, missed the point.
Re: Grooooan - [info]mightydrunken - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:01 am (UTC) Expand
Getting right down to the Root of Dark Matters
[info]amanfrommars wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:46 am (UTC)
In Holland, where weed, by the way, is not legalised, but tolerated for a spooky remote control [the Dutch are light years ahead in this particular game] the problems they have with the bud are invariably caused by the ignorant and usually foreign user/red light cruiser/asylum seeker/head case? And only shared as a question because they have much bigger problems to deal with which have absolutely nothing to do with drugs and everything to do with the spread of poverty. And on another forum which asked ..... "Why do so many people need unnatural drugs to enjoy their lives? What is so wrong with them? What can possibly be natural about inhaling burning weed?" ..... this was a reply.

[quote]There is absolutely nothing unnatural about weed/marijuana. And can you imagine that all people like to take it because it makes them feel so much better about practically and virtually everything. But just like something as simple as eating, abuse it and take far too much is a fool ego trip for the idiotic and moronic/uneducated/undereducated, because it can lead to complications and social problems .... and if money for treatment of such ignorant, abusive, self harming victims/perps is one of your concerns, are you to propose that food be legislated against for the harm that it can and does do to so many when abused? And peanuts can kill but I don't hear about them being targetted and outlawed.

Would you deny anyone the freedom to feel so much better about practically and virtually everything? However, what is also the most probable collateral problem and real fear for those who would argue with falsehoods against such a freedom and seek to legislate and criminalise a perfectly natural product, is the increased State of Total Informational Awareness which it imparts, and which reveals the rotten deceptions which are used to subjugate and sublimely brainwash the masses for the personal advantage of a Select Controlling Few.

[..................... The part of the reply missing here is off dope topic and goes into/onto brainwashing the masses field, and may be far too controversial for the Independent to print, although there could be no denying the incontrovertible evidence of the Truth in what it says]

And what can possibly be natural about inhaling burning oil and gas fumes? But who really cares whenever one just gets used to it and does one's best to limit emissions, is a valid response, and government policy too, everywhere. [/quote]

And to legalise the weed and to imagine that it can be taxed to provide a money for nothing profitable money stream for the Establishment to play with, and pay themselves with, while they play their own games, will reveal the System for what it is, and have every Tom, Dick and Harry and Janet and Jane growing their own stash for personal consumption in the privacy of their own homes/properties.

Which would indicate that the System is Busted and Collapsing .... and in Dire Straits need of a Fundamental Reinvention in A.N.Other Guise, rather than Pathetic Patching as is the Present Misguided Global Course of Significant Non Action, which has fooled Nobody and their Dog.

Business as Usual just Aint an Option for that Aint Progress, it is Stagnation and Heralds Catastrophic Inevitable Imminent Stagflation and that would surely be a Human Failure which can be left at the Door of Intelligence Services ....... or does some other Greed Organisation Lead into Follies?
Chemial weapons
[info]econyonium wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC)
If there were factories making chemical weapons in known locations producing these to be deployed against the citizenry in Western countries would we - the West - led by the US not bomb the facilities and the people making the weapons?

Are not drugs de facto chemical weapons and do we not know where these originate?

Why no bombs?
Let's face it
[info]ankh156 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:55 am (UTC)
Thinking you can 'legislate away' the desire of humans to use herbs and substances to change the way they feel is (and always was) absurd. The only coherent explanation I can find for all of the distortions and lies we've heard on the subject is that the legislators are in league with the criminal traffickers and so must derive some shady benefit from the illegality of such things. Bruce Anderson's article is pretty-much 'on the money' and succintly put. 'War on drugs' is hardly less idiotic than 'war on terror'. May I propose we wage a 'war on stupidity' ? For myself, I don't expect to see elected politicians and legislators to extract their heads from the sand in my own lifetime. I've been looking the stupidity of laws on intoxicants in the face for nearly 40 years now. I've been 'busted' 3 times, and lived as a putative criminal all this time. On the other hand, my father was a violent alcoholic, and apparently that's OK.
you are living in la la land
[info]lee_ji_me wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:02 am (UTC)
what a very stupid article with short sighted vision. Anderson, you are part of the liberal elite that are ruining society by your very limited vision and mis-placed ideas about freedom. When Stuart Mill campaigned for freedom in society it was for the under class to have rights and the ability to receive education and uplift themselves out of economic and social barriers. Now you are applying his philosophy to drug taking? Don't you understand human nature? It is the responsibility for those in positions of power to provide the best conditions for human happiness and well being and for the whole of society to thrive. By providing poison to people who are misguided and confused and SICK, you are actually teaching them only to kill themselves and rid society of the problem to find a better way. We cannot have a society where drugs are legal - it would be the end of morals and ethics within a framwork that MUST strive for a better good for people not provide them the structure to drag them down to the lowest common denominator in name of so called 'rights'. Shame on you Anderson.
Re: you are living in la la land
[info]ankh156 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:29 am (UTC)
Evidently you've bought into the revailing propaganda. Funny that the venality and moral breakdown which you optimistically see as an unavoidable facette of the liberated human condition is at least as evident among our 'elders and betters' (our elected leaders) as among the 'lower ranks' of society. More so even, which is why I have no confience in the legislators to make such decisions on my behalf. It also explains why I find their legislative efforts incoherent and socially dangerous and degrading. I wish I could share your rosy vision of a society 'kept on the rails' by wise leaders, but in the face of the mess currently before us I don't see much evidence for it. May inquire into what you've been taking ?
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]lee_ji_me - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]felipe_segundo - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 12:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]lee_ji_me - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]ankh156 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]sjkillman - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]py07 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 04:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]vangryman - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]felipe_segundo - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]kenneth75 - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 04:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]lee_ji_me - Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]kenneth75 - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 04:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: you are living in la la land - [info]lee_ji_me - Tuesday, 3 November 2009 at 07:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Legalize Soft Drugs
[info]crazyonearth wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:03 am (UTC)
I'm all for legalizing soft drugs, like herb and hallucinogenics, x. That's what Holland has done, by-in-large, I think we all could learn something from them. But as Chomsky says, cigarettes are legal and herb is not because herb's just a weed, anyone could grow it. But processing tobaco is more of a process and makes far more money for the corporations--and kills many, so lets make that legal.

I also suspect taht soft drugs are illegal because they give you vision: and to the powers that be vision in the hands and minds of the people is a very bad, bad, thing...
Re: Legalize Soft Drugs
[info]vangryman wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:44 pm (UTC)
Absolutley right.

Alcohol kills brain cells = legal
Cannabis increases brain activity = illegal

Dosn't take a genius to work out why.
Why are labour 's bullies reacting now?
[info]healthdirect wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:23 am (UTC)
On 1st Aug 2006 the Independent published Prof Nutt's research into the risk of drugs (reproduced on the Health Direct blog at http://www.healthdirect.co.uk/2006/08/risks-of-taking-drugs-compared.html.)
Since then Prof Nutt has been promoted by labour to be chairman of the govt's Advisory Council for the Misuse of Drugs.
So his research and opinions were in the public domain- and presumably approved of when he was promoted.
Ergo, why the fuss now? He's not saying anything new. Just common sense.
legalize drugs all around the world
[info]nettysanger wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
Dear Bruce,

I could not agree with you more on legalising all drugs in countries all over the world. It has been my thought for many years. A government has no right to say what an adult can and cannot use.
If realised the world would definitely be a different, better place, where police would have so much more time and energy to spend their work on real crime.
Have we ever tried to count the money that goes into fighting drugrelated crimes?

Please keep up the good work in pointing out this philosophy to as many readers as possible.
In my country things are a little better than in England, but still. Governments do not seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that there will always be drugs, be it alcohol, tobacco, opium or else. So educate people, but they should be free to choose. By the way, I do like my daily two glasses of wine, remember the prohibition?

Highest regards,
Netty Sanger

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