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There's more to Transylvania than Dracula

Everyone knows Transylvania as the home of the vampire count. But he wasn't the only interesting character to come from this area, says Marcus Tanner

The medieval city of Sibiu is a good base from which to explore Saxon Transylvania

AP

The medieval city of Sibiu is a good base from which to explore Saxon Transylvania

The woman from Barclays was sharp with me down the phone line to Deva, an uninviting-looking town in the middle of Transylvania. "You should have told us you were going to Romania," she tut-tutted. "It's on our black list for identity theft and fraud. That's why we blocked your card." Thanks, I thought. There I was in the middle of nowhere, having hopped off the train on the trail of a 15th-century king I was writing a book about, and I couldn't get any money from the ATM.

I hurried on to the local castle at Hunedoara, hoping that the bank would have sorted my cash crisis by dinnertime. In the meantime I tried to forget money and lose myself in the Gothic turrets, battlements, moat and drawbridge. Hunedoara castle was once the childhood home of Matthias Hunyadi, one-time king of Hungary and a personal hero of mine, not so much for his extensive military conquests but his other activities.

Impressed with the example of Julius Caesar, emperor and writer, Matthias had laid aside his weapons in the 1480s, when he was getting on, and concentrated on high culture, building up one of the great libraries of Renaissance Europe and filling his court with philosophers, writers, artists and singers from every part of Europe. With his puissant Italian consort Beatrice at his side, he presided over a true golden age, whose legacy was smashed to smithereens when the Ottomans invaded Hungary in the 1520s, some years after Matthias's death.

During his own lifetime, Matthias dropped his family name of Hunyadi and styled himself Corvinus, "the Raven", and his castle in Transylvania, not far from where he was born, is full of raven motifs carved in stone.

Ravens apart, there were not many other signs that this had been the childhood home of a great monarch. Instead, the main exhibition was a waxwork collection of famous world personalities, including a stout-looking Lady Di dressed in eau-de-nil evening gown and tiara. A crowd of Romanian tourists bustled past, shepherded by their Orthodox priest, pausing briefly to stare briefly at Di and her waxwork companion, Osama bin Laden.

I left, a little disappointed. I'd tramped round much of Europe, looking for the remnants of the king's famous library scattered around Hungary, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and indeed England. But Transylvania was his "home turf", so to speak, and it was here I had hoped to come across more tangible relics of his life.

But as the silence surrounding his name in the castle had showed, this wasn't going to be easy, because Transylvania is contested land. Like Kosovo, or Northern Ireland, one nation is in possession of the turf, but another questions that fact.

In Transylvania, that "other" is the Hungarians, overlords of Transylvania until the First World War and disconsolate and unwilling citizens of Romania ever since. The Romanians pay that Hungarian resentment back in kind, resolutely ignoring the Hungarian character of Transylvania's ancient monuments – hence Lady Di's precedence over memories of Matthias in the castle.

I pushed on to Cluj, or Koloszvar in Hungarian, one of the jewels in Transylvania's crown, the old centre dominated by a fabulous red-roofed cathedral-sized parish church in which Matthias was almost certainly baptised and near to which stands the squat white townhouse where he was born in the 1440s.

In these shady cobbled side streets with their ivy-clad, sparrow-filled walls, one can see why one British writer in the 1920s drew vague likeness between Cluj and Oxford. But it's Oxford with a vein of ethnic tension.

Back in the 1990s, Cluj laboured under an ultra-nationalist Romanian mayor, named Funar, whose anti-Hungarian rants and campaigns have left their mark – and not just on the town's benches, which he had painted in Romania's national colours.

Mayor Funar also half-ruined the huge statue of Matthias in the main square, undermining the foundations with bizarre and unsightly archaeological digs aimed at unearthing various pots and shovels that would "prove" the antiquity of the Romanian presence in the area.

I felt relieved to leave the memory-laden gothic lanes of Cluj for the open, baroque squares of Timisoara, another Hunyadi family "seat" back in the 15th century and now one of Romania's most cosmopolitan and attractive towns. Arriving at a weekend, I was struck by the continuing devotion of Romanians to their church, because in the Disney-style Orthodox cathedral it was standing room only on Sunday, the huge congregation bulked out by a fair sprinkling of youthful, good-looking back-clad nuns.

While Romanians see Transylvania as the birthplace of their nationality, and Hungarians insist it is the fortress of theirs, making it a case of cradle vs bastion, there was once a third player on Transylvania's ethnic stage. These were the Transylvanian Saxons, once 300,000 strong but now down to a handful of Lutheran pastors and few thousand oldies, like Sam Hutter, bellringer and practically the last Saxon in his once populous village, near Sibiu.

I had swung down to Sibiu to visit the former stamping ground of King Matthias's most infamous houseguest – Dracula. Yes, the prince of darkness not only existed but started out as a protégé of Matthias's father, Janos, who dusted down the hick young Romanian princeling and took him off to the Hungarian court in the 1450s to get spruced up.

But after Janos died, and after the young man's boiling and impaling activities got on everyone's nerves, Matthias had Dracula placed under comfortable house arrest at his summer palace in northern Hungary at Visegrad.

There the captive's luminous eyes and fearsome reputation (much bruited about by Matthias) attracted the attention of curious diplomats, including the papal nuncio who wrote a long description of him to Pope Pius II. The Pontiff was fascinated. "Such is the discrepancy between a man's appearance and his soul!" he wrote.

I'd always thought "Dracula" was a name cooked up by Bram Stoker, but no; Dracula was precisely what Matthias called him, when he wrote to the Saxon burghers of southern Transylvania commending "our friend Dracula" to their tender care as he journeyed home, following his release.

Yet it's a pity that Romania's tourist authorities play so relentlessly on the Dracula cult to the virtual exclusion of all else, for it totally overshadows the more accessible and no less interesting Saxon history of southern Transylvania.

The Saxons may all have gone – all bar Mr Hutter, that is – but their pointy churches enclosed by high walls, built to withstand Ottoman sieges, remain, as do those villages of gingerbread houses, kept from ruin by funds sent from Saxons living in Germany.

Sibiu, which the Saxons called Hermannstadt, and Europe's capital of culture in 2007, is a fine base from which to explore these semi-deserted gems, which now only echo to the ancient German dialect of the Saxons when they return each autumn to their annual festival.

The Saxons never claimed Transylvania as their exclusive property. Not for them talk of cradles or bastions, for which reason the Romanians eye them with less suspicion than the Hungarians. The Romanians of Sibiu are far much more inclined to celebrate the town's Saxon heritage than their counterparts in Cluj are ready to acknowledge their city's Hungarian dimension, for example. They have even elected one of the handful of remaining Saxons in the town as mayor.

Funnily enough, it's the visiting Germans who seem least interested in their Transylvanian kith and kin – those descendants of youngsters who suddenly left the Rhineland for the distant Carpathians far off in the 12th century, so spawning the legend of a sinister pied piper who had lured the children into the dark mountains. "They were all Nazis," a German woman working temporarily for a Roma charity told me, curtly.

Maybe. Certainly, when old Sam Hutter took to me to his village war memorial, to point out a long roll call of Hutters who had died in the service of the upright old Emperor Franz Josef of Austria, I couldn't help notice that a fair number of local Saxons had died rather more recently, in the service of another, less reputable Austrian.

Transylvania, land "beyond the forest", a shifting sort of place, not always as comfortable as its name might suggest. But one evening, standing in a grass meadow outside the old Saxon church where the German woman had started telling me about the Nazis, what really impressed was the mysterious beauty of the place – golden sunset, old church, dark forest.

There are still bears and wolves in the immense forests of Transylvania though I didn't see any. But I did see a real raven, with a huge wingspan, gliding on the air currents from the churchyard where I stood across the valley below towards the dark green forest where it disappeared. And I thought of Matthias who'd chosen that dark, unknowable bird for his emblem, possibly after watching one gliding across a valley toward the forest in much the same way as I had, years ago.

COMPACT FACTS

How to get there

Wizzair (00 48 22 351 9499; wizzair.com) offers return flights from Luton to Cluj from £50.

In Cluj, the Victoria Hotel (00 40 264 597 963; hotel-victoria.ro) offers B&B from €73 (£65) per night. In Timisoara, the Valentina (00 40 256 497 535; hotelvalentina.ro) has B&B from €57 per night. In Sibiu, the Old Town Hostel (hostelsibiu.ro) offers B&B from €75 per night.

Further information

Romanian Tourist Office (020-7224 3692; romaniatourism.com).

Transylvania, by Kelet Nyugat, offers information on homestays (keletnyugat.hu).

 

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Comments

very interesting................
[info]lodger41 wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 10:22 am (UTC)
A superly written piece, so very interesting and educational on many levels...........Look out Dracsie, here comes the Lodger !
Romania
[info]smile633 wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:03 am (UTC)
Hello,i from Romania and i read your oppinion
But one passage maked me top post this comment
"It's on our black list for identity theft and fraud. That's why we blocked your card."
Yes,it is true that in Romainia are a lot of gypsys and bad peoples.But not all!!! 89%of Romanian population are peoples of romainian. Other minorities are just 1,1% .Even it looks like a small procent,i know,it is enough.And i belive you,the americans,spanish,and other peoples(that are not from Ro) when u say "Oh,the romainian peoples are burglars,killers,etc" No,not all of us! Like u,the americans,not all of you are burglars,killers,etc.
Please don't belive that romanian peoples are all the same.It is true,there are lots of peoples poor,etc.But not of all.I saw that u know our history.Even u were dissapointed beacuse u don't saw in Transilvania more relicves,or remnants,think that the peoples maybe don't have them,to show them up.

I'm glad u visited our country,even u had some troubles.I from "Muntenia" not "Transilvania" but i saw Transilvania. If u want contact me ,please send me an email to smile633@gmail.com and i'll tell u more about my country,my region,etc.In my county there were some important history personalities.

I will tell u more if u want talk with me.

Bye bye
Re: Romania
[info]iubica wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 12:07 am (UTC)
smile633, re: "it is true that in Romainia are a lot of gypsys and bad peoples" - I take exception to that. You are right to be upset by Marcus Tanner's poorly written piece, but why take it on the gypsies?
Re: Romania
[info]smile633 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 06:05 am (UTC)
no..you understood it wrong..i don't hate gypsies..i'm not rasist.But,you know(because i think you're from Romania) when the italians,or other populations,hear the word "gypsies" or "tigani" they're not viewing them with good eyes.

Deci,cei care sunt romania,nu ma intelegeti gresit.Nu am nimic cu tiganii,doar ca stiti,atunci cand alte populatii(italieni,francezi) aud de tigani,nu prea ii agreeaza.[romainian version]

And,why i'm not seeing all the comments?the administrator has deleted them?
Romania, from a hungarian minority person living in Romania
[info]amiens2009 wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 03:29 pm (UTC)
This article is 100 % right, and therefore I can only congratulate for the writer. I colud suggest that everyone should vistie Seklerland,or Harghita and Covasna counties where a massive number of the romanian hunagrianans are living. I can only say, that Smiler, or the muntenian is absoluetly wrong in the number of the hungarians, because, in Romania are living 1.500 000, one million and half hungarians, not 1,1 % as he pointed out, Don't let you cheat you, you can always google it, and smarter peoples than smiler just google it, before they even talk, So, i can only suggest to all your readers to Google it these types of questions.
Have a nice day!
Re: Romania, from a hungarian minority person living in Romania
[info]jwoo80 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 11:34 am (UTC)
Yes, 1.5 million Hungarians represent around 6.5% of the population. A crucial difference with Kosovo (90% Albanians), N. Ireland and the such is that Hungarians are NOT majoritary not only in Romania, but not even in Transylvania. Moreover: they never were. Even in the middle ages, as Transylvania was ruled by Hungary, Romanians were a vast majority in Transylvania, although they were the "ruled class". So if you will, Transylvania is a "reversed Kosovo", in the sense that the majority already decided about it's faith 100 years ago ...
Re: Romania, from a hungarian minority person living in Romania
[info]bianca_po wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 03:01 pm (UTC)
I can see how "smart" are u. Of course, u think that the article is 100% true. Tell me, plz, what should we see when we u visit Harghita and Covasna? Not even the forest because was stolen by the Hungarians. What shall we see there? The poverty? What? The Hungarians that live in Romania but don't know a word in their language? What?
If you calculate 100% - 89% = 11%. "Smile633" made a mistake by a sign. STOP LIEING!!!!
Re: Romania, from a hungarian minority person living in Romania
[info]cluj wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 04:15 pm (UTC)
What a pity that Mathias the model king of the author did not enjoy very much visiting the Szekeyland  but he could find out more things about Transylvania or Kosovo there. About Romanian Hungarians as you say. I'm shore there is a cult for Mathias in Szekelyland, the guy (Mr. Author) wouldn't understand anything, maybe some legend about Romanian killing Hungarians, or who knows some exotic natzi stories. No offence but we are all exposed to stupid people, in Szekeyland, in Transylvania, in Kosovo or in North Ireland
And yes you are right the Hungarian minority is 6,5-7 % in Romania (look at the election results), More in Transylvania 1,5 million from 8 million. You should do the mathematics; the author is not able to do it.
Re: Romania, from a hungarian minority person living in Romania
[info]smile633 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 06:10 am (UTC)
yes,i've got it wrong and i'm sorry for it.Anyway,a good article,and very interesing for the people who want to come in Romainia.
to Marcus Tanner
[info]homo_scelerosus wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 05:07 pm (UTC)
There's more to Transylvania than Dracula... nice of you to notice, Marcus! It's nice to see that people show a little interest in those parts of Europe as well. Being a bit more careful with nuances and less condescending and superficial might help you in the pursuit of this interest. I find the comparison between Transylvania and Kosovo or Northern Ireland (with respect to the ethnic issue) to be greatly exaggerated. The Hungarians did not create an IRA-like organisation, and the Romanians did not start an ethnic cleansing war.
not quite so...
[info]mariusoncu wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 06:20 pm (UTC)
"Like Kosovo, or Northern Ireland, one nation is in possession of the turf, but another questions that fact". The situations of Kosovo and Northern Ireland differ so much from each other not to mention Transilvania. You might not know what you are talking about, but being a journalist myself I wonder why didn't you at least consult Wikipedia. Documentation not your strong point? Actually people are pretty quite here. They have their little rivalries but the fact that the Romanian electorate pushed out of Parliament the last extremist party PRM or that Funar is no longer the mayor of Cluj should tell you something. On the other side the Hungarian minority is still represented by an ethnic political party (UDMR. There is another party but they are extremists) which speaks about their perception. Plus the situations in Kosovo and Northern Ireland are characterized by violence which is not the case in Romania. I take pride in informing my readers as accurately as possible so I wonder what you have to say in your defense. The same logic could have been used to compare Transilvania to the Darfur region. Other observations: The father of Vlad Tepes (Dracula) was Vlad Dracu (Drac in the old Romanian was equivalent to dragon). The nickname of Vlad Tepes' father came from his affiliation to the Ordo Draconis (Order of the Dragon started by Sigismund of Luxembourg in 1387) which I think had an emblem consisting of a dragon on a cross. So that is where Dracula comes from. His cruelty is a different story and was in line with the practices of the age.
"A crowd of Romanian tourists bustled past, shepherded by their Orthodox priest, pausing briefly to stare briefly at Di and her waxwork companion, Osama bin Laden". I resent your irony. You should respect the paper's readers more (since you see there are some from Romania). "Sheperded" can be excusable to some extent (although the fact that you either don't believe in anything or are a protestant doesn't give you such rights), but the "stare" clearly shows your intent.
Regarding Matthias Hunyadi's (Matei Corvin in Romanian) father, the thing is he was Romanian from his father's side and was called Iancu de Hunedoara (Iancu of Hunedoara). You could have found out this very easily.
And yes the Hungarian minority in Romania numbers around 1.5 million (that's around 7% of the population).
wrong spelling
[info]poges wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 08:23 pm (UTC)
Sir,

The name of Cluj in Hungarian is not Koloszvar, it is Kolozsvar.
Yes, there is more to Transylvania
[info]eftimie wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 08:45 pm (UTC)
..but the author it seems, wasted his trip, judging from the scarcity of valuable historical facts in his article. The gloomy tone, gives one who knows Romania the impression that Marcus visited a different country.
To call a Christian Orthodox cathedral which stands for hundreds of years,, "Disney style" reflects poorly on his understanding of religion, culture and why not, architecture.
In order to truly understand a foreign culture, first one has to know and appreciate his own. Otherwise, we'd all be like the tipical westerner, gawking, photographing and running about in shorts and sandals, but missing the point entirely.
Re: Yes, there is more to Transylvania
[info]amiens2009 wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:22 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry to inform you, but the so called "Christian Orthodox cathedral which stands for hundreds of years" dosn't stand there for hundreds of years, it was built after the romanians took controle on Transylvania. You should be better informed, before you speak lies.
Re: Yes, there is more to Transylvania
[info]stefancelmare wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:57 pm (UTC)
Amiens, I suppose it was quite difficult to build Orthodox churches as it was forbidden by the Hungarians. As Wikipedia states: "Transylvania became one of the few European States where Roman Catholics, Calvinists, Lutherans and Unitarians lived in peace, although Orthodox Romanians continued to be denied equal recognition." So, even if in the past the majority of population in Transylvania was ethnic Romanian, orthodox, the Hungarians didn't recognize them as actual people in 'Unio Trium Nationum', which basically meant they were slaves. And you are proud of that??
Re: Yes, there is more to Transylvania
[info]amiens2009 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 09:31 pm (UTC)
Do not come with the "unio Trium Nationum", because, yes, it existed, and was a great system, but only in the medieval ages, until it was created the Greek-Catholic Church, but the quotation above speaks only about the church, as i do, and I can only repeat myself in this particular matter. That church does not stand for hundreds years, please don't make me repeat myself, for the third time!!!
A more comprehensive history of the Romanian - Hungarian problem
[info]stefancelmare wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 08:46 pm (UTC)
First of all I am Romanian, and proud of it. I think that you are right on some of your observations, such as the "care" or better said "lack of care" towards Hungarian history in Transylvania. I live in Cluj and I can see that you obviously know the history of Matthias Hunyadi. You most probably know the fact that his father was Romanian, so I thought maybe only on this account you may be more interested to also look into the reasons why there is a Romanian - Hungarian problem.
In the beginning, I'd like to quote from Wikipedia's article on Transylvanian history: "After the suppression of the Budai Nagy Antal-revolt in 1437, the political system was based on Unio Trium Nationum (The Union of the Three Nations). According to the Union, which was explicitly directed against serfs and other peasants, society was ruled by three privileged Estates of the nobility (mostly ethnic Hungarians), the Székelys, also an ethnic Hungarian people who primarily served as warriors, and the ethnic German, Saxon burghers. The only possibility for Romanians to retain or access nobility in Hungarian Transylvania was through conversion to Catholicism. Some Orthodox Romanian nobles converted, becoming integrated into the Hungarian nobility. These circumstances marked the beginning of a conflict between ethnic Hungarian Catholics and ethnic Romanian Orthodox (and ethnic Romanian Greek Catholics also) in the territory of Transylvania which in some regions remains unresolved to this very day."
You can see, it was this Unio Trium Nationum that obliged Matthias's family on his father's side to embrace Catholicism in order to keep their nobility.
To continue quoting: "Although Romanians formed the majority of Transylvania's population (59%), they had not been awarded legal status as a nation. In 1892 the leaders of the Romanians of Transylvania sent a Memorandum to the Austro-Hungarian Emperor-King Franz Joseph, asking for equal ethnic rights with the Hungarians, and demanding an end to persecutions and Magyarization attempts. Franz Josef forwarded the memorandum to Budapest, and the authors were tried for "homeland betrayal" in May 1894, being sentenced to long prison terms."
It should also be mentioned, for those who did not know and held Hungarians to be so noble that "Austria-Hungary created a process of Magyarization affecting Transylvania's Romanians, Szeklers and German Saxons". This was actually a painful process lead by the Hungarians of obliging people to give up on their Romanian names, traditions, religion and language. It was just as equal to genocide today. The fact that it happened in the Medieval period is not an excuse, and it is obvious why Romanians, which made up the majority of ordinary people in Transylvania, lack respect for Hungarian heritage. The sole fact that my grandparents remember their parents stories of how if you were heard speaking Romanian they would cut your tongue out, is quite a clear explanation. I wonder how you would relate to this in England, but I risk to assume that such kind of treatments from an invader would make you have some... lack of respect to their historical heritage.
Moreover, the Hungarians were not very kind even in recent history. In the Second World War, the Hungarian army was responsible for some very controversial actions in Transylvania: seearch on wiki for Ip massacre and Treznea massacre, you'll get some more clues on why we aren't quite keen on Transylvania's hungarian history.
Even so, real ethnic tensions today in Transylvania is a clear exaggeration for all those living in here. I have good friends that are Hungarian and we don't argue about the past, but rather see the future history of our countries in the European Union perspective.
This is about it, I hope you have an insight on the "problem" now :D
And some other problems with the article
[info]stefancelmare wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:06 pm (UTC)
"It's a pity that Romania's tourist authorities play so relentlessly on the Dracula cult". I need to correct that. It is certainly not true that Romanian authorities promote Dracula's cult. You could at least have gone to Dracula's castle in Bran before speaking. You would be surprised, like most people are, to see that inside it there is no trace of Dracula! It is just real Romanian history, unrelated to Dracula (really, he did not live there! It's just fiction from Bram Stoker's book). The fact that private business go on the Dracula card, is something different. They see an opportunity to make money, and who's to stop them from trying to do it? Actually, Romanian authorities denied private investors from making a Dracula amusement park! But did you know this? It was much easier to just say it without some basic research on it.
Another wrong thing is "While Romanians see Transylvania as the birthplace of their nationality, and Hungarians insist it is the fortress of theirs, making it a case of cradle vs bastion". Not true. Cradle it was, but it was also under constant Romanian majority, even in the Medieval period. It may be true that we did not rule the place as the nobles were kindly "converted" to Catholicism and given Magyar names. But hey, why research on that also. You probably have just seen the "cradle" part and thought that was it. Well, thanks for that at least, as you may have researched the Dacian ruins in Sarmizegetusa, which clearly state the presence of the Dacians in these parts in the period of the Roman empire. They must have just disappeared after the Hungarians came around the year 1000 in Transylvania.
"After Janos died, and after the young man's boiling and impaling activities got on everyone's nerves, Matthias had Dracula placed under comfortable house arrest at his summer palace in northern Hungary at Visegrad". Wrong again. Vlad Tepes's (Dracula's) actions were exaggerated in order to keep the Ottoman threat at bay. As noted in Wikipedia "As prince, Vlad maintained an independent policy in relation to the Ottoman Empire and was a defender of Wallachia against Ottoman expansionism." It may sound easy to do, but in those times, it was very, very difficult (as the Ottomans almost conquered Europe). So obviously, he was cruel to his enemies, but this was a quite common practice to keep them away from your lands. He had every right to exacerbate his actions in order to keep his people free, but this had a draw-back, as the exaggeration was propagated in Western Europe as well. As far as Matthias's involvement goes, he actually tried to keep Vlad in prison not because he was horrified by the stories he heard, but because he signed a peace treaty with the ottomans, giving up Vallachia (southern Romania today) - the place which Dracula ruled;
And some more other problems with the article
[info]stefancelmare wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:12 pm (UTC)
Regarding the Hunedoara Castle, Romanians don't really have a bad opinion on Matei Corvin's father, Iancu de Hunedoara (as you would call them "Matthias Hunyadi" and "Janos Hunyadi" - just another proof of magyarization). Iancu de Hunedoara is actually considered a brave Romanian hero; to quote Wikipedia: "[Iancu's father, Matei's grandfather], the knight Vajk, (Romanian "Voicu"), was of Romanian descent". Iancu was nicknamed "the White Knight", and had a distinguished military career. As most Romanian heroes, he held the Otoman threat at bay from Europe for quite a long time. If you were to think of some of the sources of inspiration of J.R.R. Tolkien for "The Lord of the Rings", Romanian history would be a good place to look for similarities with "Gondor", as Romanian rulers fought hard against the Ottoman threat. For example, the Romanian ruler Stephen the Great "was victorious in 34 of his 36 battles, and was one of the first to gain a decisive victory over the Ottomans at the Battle of Vaslui, after which Pope Sixtus IV deemed him ?verus christianae fidei athleta? (true Champion of Christian Faith)" but as history is written by the Catholics in Europe, we are not so lucky to have our side presented completely. (P.S. Stephen the Great won a battle in 1476 against? Matthias, but hey, who?s counting).
Honestly, if you are Romanian and you read this article, you just feel that another ignorant journalist from wherever came to visit your country, did not understand it, and did not even bother to do it.
and my problem with Matthias
[info]stefancelmare wrote:
Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 11:50 pm (UTC)
One more note and I'm finished. You admire the king Matthias because of his interest in arts, culture and books. But it's interesting to know that he actually was very far from his father in the fight against the Ottoman empire (also very important stuff, as culture tends to be affected by invaders, you know, it sufffers and all...). While his father constantly raided regions in Walachia to keep ottomans away, he chose to not protect or help bordering regions in their fight for freedom from the Ottomans. Moreover, he tried to punish those neighbors that fought against the Ottomans (if I were to continue with the Lord of the Rings metaphor, imagine that instead of help Gondor got it's ass kicked by Rohan). The proof for this was his act to imprison Vlad (Dracula) and leave Walachia as a region under the rule of Ottomans (we payed big money to the sultan). Another prof was the invasion of Moldavia, ended with the battle in 1476 against Stephen the Great (the Romanian ruler I was talking about in the prevous post, really important fighter against the Ottomans). So It is easy to understand why I, and many Romanians really don't see Matthias through his actions as Romanian, even though he was of Romanian origin and got to the Hungarian throne only in a special situation of crisis of power, and because of his father's good name.
Well, that's about it I guess.
We Romanians have a pretty fascinating history, but I can understand that probably having a Hungarian guide must have affected your objectivity. Oh well.
Re: and my problem with Matthias
[info]pacostiro wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 09:22 am (UTC)
On behalf of romanians, thank you stefancelmare for all the comments.
Waiting for mister jurnalist's reply.
Dracula is just a story written by an irishman
[info]dfenso wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 12:47 am (UTC)
Dracula is just a story written by an irishman and it is not promoted by romanians in any way. The fact that there is a little relation to real history made it seem like a local myth but in fact it is just the imagination of an irish writer. In fact the actual place of the castles described in the book have no relation with reality (even if we asume Dracula to be Vlad Tepes ("The Impaler")). Vlad Tepes (Dracula) was a cruel but just ruler of Romania. When he was the romanian leader the thiefs, murderers, etc almost disappeared because they were very afraid of him and his penalties, mostly impalment. The vampire stories seem to have some origins in the Eastern Europe, but they have nothing to do with Vlad Tepes. Some assume that the hungarian countess Bathory may be the most important source of inspiration for the book (she used to kill young virgins and bath in their blood to keep her youth - or so the story tells) and she had some connection with Transylvania too (at that time Transylvania belong to Hungary so she travelled in Transylvania too).

You said that Transylvania was a part of Hungary before the First World War, but you forgot to mention that before belonging to Hungary Transylvania was first part of the older romanian state Dacia (like the car name). Also, along the history, after Hungary invaded it, Transylvania was controlled at certain times by the Otomans, Romanians, Habsburgs, migrating peoples like Visigots, Huns, Gepids, Avars or was even an independent state for quite some years. Unfortunately this land was torn between the Otomans, the Asian migrating people like Huns, the Romans, the Slavs and the western countries (Habsburgs). Dont forget that England was conquered by Romans at a certain time and they stayed there more than 360 years but nobody claims that England is part of Italy. The same way the Huns (Hungarians) ruled Transylvania a few hundred years after invading it but it is almost as evident that they cant have any real claim on it. The only difference is that their invasion has ended much more recently that Roman's in England so naturally there are some resentments between romanians and hungarians. In fact it is somehow amazing that romanians could resist that much considering that most of the time when Transylvania was under Hungarian or Austrian ruling the romanian language was not recognized and religion was imposed. Romans have invaded Transylvania much sooner than the Huns but you wont hear any italian making territorial claims. In fact even Italy's Roman Empire was "destroyed" by "barbarians" (Huns or their descendants) as many other older european empires. Most of the migrating people were splitted in most of Europe, but the Huns finally settled mostly in actual Hungary and around (including Transylvania, but also Slovakia, etc). And if we're talking about Cluj-Napoca, all the city center has roman buildings under it (even under Mathias Rex statue), proving that the city is at least a thousand years older than Huns invasion in Transylvania. Even the name Napoca is taken from the old Roman name of the city. And if we're talking about the Cluj ex-major Funar, I think that traces of civilization from 2000 years ago that he discovered (I mean made them available for public to view) are more important than a statue from 1902. Dont missunderstand me, I like that statue (now they are restoring it), but it has little historical importance or value as it is quite new. It is just a comemorative statue for a romanian-hungarian king who was more important in Hungary's history than Romania's. Even the fact that one of the most important kings of Hungary was in fact half romanian says quite a lot about the origins of this land.
Re: Dracula is just a story written by an irishman
[info]cluj wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 04:28 pm (UTC)
Maybe the author follows the tradition and is trying to find a new hero in Transylvania. He has everything a poor culture and enough sufficiency and arrogance. And he finds him self pretty exotic writing about a far wild country
A few comments
[info]ionut81 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 09:39 am (UTC)
"like Kosovo"? I have a big issue with that. The Hungarian minority represents 20% of Transilvania's population, opposed to 75% Romanians. Comparing that with 88% Albanians, 8% Serbs in Kosovo, Transylvania doesn't look really look "like Kosovo", is it?

"The Romanians pay that Hungarian resentment back in kind". A natural reaction to centuries of oppression and relentless attempts of denationalisation I would say, but really you make the "problem" look bigger than it is. Only a small part of both Romanians and Hungarians have that kind of thinking. The rest of us, live our lives without putting the nationality issue up front. I have Hungarian friends, I've had Hungarian girlfriends, my grandma was Hungarian... (BTW: Matthias himself is of mixed origin).

Cluj = Oxford with a vein of ethnic tension. Again, say what? I live in Cluj and I have yet to feel that ethnic tension outside of some troubled politicians' declarations.

Related to Cluj, I don't know how that statue is half-ruined, I pass it by daily and it looks the same it looked before the infamous digs. Digs, which, by the way, did unearthed some Roman artifacts.

Most Romanians are sick & tired of this story, but here it is: Vlad III The Impaler cruelty has been seriously "enhanced" by some German stories written on political grounds and by your dear Matthias Corvinus interest in explaining why he didn't act against the Turks, although he did receive money for it (so he used Vlad as a scapegoat). Not to say that Vlad didn't use some pretty gruesome methods of punishment, but they were equally used by other kings who, surprisingly (or not) didn't receive that kind of "PR". Last, but not least, there was a serious reason behind all this: scaring the Turks (and boy, they were scared).
Disney-style Orthodox?
[info]dddddd4 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 12:32 pm (UTC)
The article might be written with some good intentions, and a massive lack of documentation (for instance not knowing that Matei Corvin's father was romanian), but at the same time, what can anyone who has read more then the brands of beer and football team names, think when someone's first thought looking at a beautiful cathedral, is Disney? Isn't the mind of the author capable of thinking beyond this unfortunate comparison?
Re: Disney-style Orthodox?
[info]stefania33 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 02:58 pm (UTC)
First of all I am proud to say that I am Romanian and I am orthodox as a religion and I do not like to read such offence you made with this article to our church , history , country and population .
I believe you should visit Romania another time and before doing that you should do more studies about Romanian history ........
As I am living in UK I see even on my work place how British people have such a wrong opinion about Romania as a country , about people , or about the Dracula story .
Before writing such nonsense about Romania History you should read more talk to Romanian History Experts and to Romanians .
The point is
[info]r_mihail wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 03:25 pm (UTC)
In my opinion, english people suck. I've been there , friends of mine have also visited England and we have a very bad impression of it . Having fun , for english people means getting drunk and getting in fight ( for men ) and getting drunk and fucking the first guy they see ( for women ) . Romania is offering the world one of it's greatest minds . U don't do shit . The thing that England does the most is surveys on stupid themes and i can enumerate a few if i put my mind to it but i am sure there is no need for that because you already know that . Did you know that a romanian was the first person to fly ? that we created insuline ? that we created the laser ? THAT WE INVENTED THE COMPUTER ? and much , much more .... Besides , we have women a lot more beautifull than you do .
Re: The point is
[info]iubica wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 12:15 am (UTC)
r_mihail, Mr Tanner's piece may be distasteful, but surely you don't mean to insult now all the English people. As to the more beautiful women that we have - oh well, it's one thing to have and an entirely different thing to possess.
Next time read more about Romania before visit
[info]stefania33 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 03:34 pm (UTC)
First of all I am proud to say that I am Romanian and I am orthodox as a religion and I do not like to read such offence you made with this article to our church , history , country and population .
I believe you should visit Romania another time and before doing that you should do more studies about Romanian history ........
As I am living in UK I see even on my work place how British people have such a wrong opinion about Romania as a country , about people , or about the Dracula story .
Before writing such nonsense about Romania History you should read more talk to Romanian History Experts and to Romanians .
A trip in the land of amateur journalism
[info]ragaev wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 03:54 pm (UTC)
I think no journalist has to know the subject they write about in the minute detail (though it is desirable to know as much as possible about it so that they can write a professional article).

As a Romanian, I read the article above with great interest. But I was bitterly disappointed with the quality and accuracy of the information provided. I don't know whether Mr Marcus Tanner is a professional journalist or merely a wannabe. In any case, it seems it would have been a good idea for him at least to google "Transilvany history" and "Matthias Corvinus" to look up for any available information he could find on the Internet before he began writing the piece about his "personal hero" and places his hero lived (I suppose browsing a serious book on the subject would have been too great an effort). Providing he had done so for the benefit of his readers and, in deed, his own, a lot of relevant factual data (both from ancient and modern time) would not have been left aside (some of them are highlighted in the above comments made by other readers).

Nonetheless, I appreciate Mr Tanner's endavours to make any sense of the information he had got in spite of the fact that reading his article is no more than a trip in the land of amateur journalism.
From Cluj Go firs to a common library
[info]cluj wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC)
Did you ever read something about king Matias, or you simply find out about him from a somebody who told you that he was like Julius Cesar ?
For what you told your public it's no need to go to Transylvania or Romania if I'm aloud (you know unlike North Ireland and England we do not live on 2 islands). The only pertinent observation is that we don't have a cult for Mathias in Romania. Even your explanation is near to the truth: is because the Hungarians decided that was their king, of course a 100 % Hungarian king like all the kings in Europe all with pure blood (his mother was a Serbian princess and he has some Romanian blood to). But those are things that you can find on google.
You should read more Sir, about Mahias, his father Janos (if you prefer this name) and also about Dracula. You might find interesting thing about people that build cathedrals Disney style, and my be you will find something more about the Nazis in Transylvania. The last passage is the stupidest thing in your little compte-rendu. I guess that you put it like this to increase the mystery and the suspense. You need to read about this also.
And please excuse us, the people from Transylvania and Kosovo an Eastern Europe in general that people like you discovered that we exist only now. Why the English people in general get so scared when they have to deal with things (peoples) they don't know?
[info]calulbalan wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 06:25 pm (UTC)
I have spent eight years running a travel fiem in Romania, having learnt to speak the language fluently and studied the history and culture in great detail. The article is somewhat superficial, as any short article might be, but.....

- Yes, there are good reasons why credit card companies should beware of Romania. My clients were cheated and robbed on a number of occasions. No, it was not because they were "stupid", which is usually a Romanian's first response.

- Romanians have a great and glorious view of their history, where the good bits (there are some, Stefan cel Mare's defence against the Ottomans being one) are burnished, and the bad bits are airbrushed out (for instance, Romania's extermination of a quarter of a million Jews as willing participants in the Holocaust.) In part, the communists are to blame; so are native prejudices!

- There generally is no arguing with Romanians, they always believe that they know best.

- Latterly I saw more prejudice by the urban nouveau riche against the peasants than by one nationality against another, except of course against the Gypsies who Romanians and Hungarians seem to dislike with equal vehemence.

- My clients' biggest complaint about Romania did not reflect ethnic tensions, but the high prices and poor service that are endemic in the tourism industry there. Spend a week in Hungary and a week in Romania, and one will see that there is no comparison!

- The second biggest complaint related to litter, which chokes every river and roadside. Romanians: if you love your country so deeply, why can't you keep it clean and dispose of your rubbish properly?

- For me, the saddest thing was seeing those things and places that were historic or beautiful being allowed to go to wrack and ruin or simply torn down, whilst ugly new villas were thrown up hillsides spoiling what nice views were left. Soon there will be nearly nothing in Romania for a tourist to see. Again, if the country is so special, as Romanians tell us ad-nauseum, why don't they take better care of it?
[info]dfenso wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 11:34 pm (UTC)
Most of the card thefts made by romanians I heard of were in England and not in Romania. Most of the romanian thiefs are in Italy, Spain and England. There is no point to steal from poorer romanians or from the very few foreign tourists. In Rome or London the chance you will have you're wallet stolen is probably bigger than in most of the romanian cities. The real reason to block cards for english citizens at romanian ATMs is that the thiefs used to send the cards in Romania and other fellows from here emptied them. At least that was the practice. But as some english banks are blocking cash withdrawal from Romania now the thiefs withdraw the money directly in England or any other western country. The banks are not smarter than thiefs and can never be because they risk to create discomfort to their customers by trying to over-protect them. If a romanian bank would do that to a romanian citizen (block his credit card) while abroad be sure it will be a big scandal and he will most probably change the bank when coming back. In fact the bank is not protecting the customer but itself (the frauds are supported by the bank).

About romanians having great and glorious view of their history ... so does every other country. I believe that english consider Francis Drake a hero and some other nations like spanish consider him a pirate. Also Churchill and Roosvelt were heros to their countries but for romanians, bulgarians, hungarians, czechs, polish they were the ones who signed the treaty which led to 50 years of communism and russian opression. Also, for some small part of the romanians, Ion Antonescu, the romanian leader in the WWII was a hero but to hebrews and gypsies he was a nazy who sent them to extermination. Hitler is still adored and missed by some part of germans. The same goes with Saddam, Castro, Ceausescu, Stalin, etc

About arguing ... well can't compare the british temperment with a latin one. It's probably the same in Italy, Spain, France, etc.

Hungarians and romanians live togheter pretty well, the conflict has just a little more intensity than english vs french. Gypsies are not usually loved anywhere in Europe, so they are not wanted in Romania too. They are one of the migrating south asian people and Romania and Bulgaria were the closest entry gates in Europe for them. Their respect for ancient traditions keep them poorly educated which later make them unfit for most of the modern jobs so they have to find alternatives for making a living. Sometimes the alternatives are theft, crime, etc.

The prices are indeed high for some products but usually the services are poor because they are much cheaper than in England. Most of the romanians who travelled to England and could not afford a top hotel complain about London's very expensive, small and old rooms hotels. Romania has two extremes: half of the hotels are from the comunist era and are mostly forgoten, the other half are brand new. Anyway a lot cheaper than England's. The beer is quite cheap for an englishman ... when they came to football matches most of them did not even go to the game after they discovered the cheap romanian bars and the beautiful girls. Hungary has indeed better tourism services, mostly spa, but they dont have the mountains and the landscapes.

Rubbish are not usually a problem in romanian cities, but can be a problem in remote touristic areas. This is because the touristic infrastructure is poor so nobody is paid to clean remote touristic areas. If nobody would clean London for a month I'm sure the mess would be huge. So its not necesarly that romanians throw more rubbish than the english (but they probably do), but mostly that nobody ever collects them (except maybe green organisations which are quite few). Once the country develops more and the touristic infrastructure grows, this problem should be solved at least partially.

The beautiful places allowed to ruin have the same explaination: there are no funds for restoration and maintenance. You cant really make that a priority when you still have huge problems with the transport infrastructure. Any country is special, but keeping a country beautiful is not a priority when you have more serious problems.
Re your romanian critique
[info]iubica wrote:
Tuesday, 24 March 2009 at 10:56 pm (UTC)
My dear Cal Balan,
Your critique of my country, Romania, is in some sense well deserved. But I'll point out, dear Sir, that you are also guilty of unfair generalization. Not all Romanians "always believe that they know best". And not all Romanians view their history as glorious.

I would direct you, for example, to the writings of Lucian Boia, "Istorie si mit in constiinta romaneasca", on the subject of the distinction that should be made between national history and national mythology. That work has not been translated to English, unfortunately - but it has been translated to Hungarian, and could serve as a basis for reconciling Romanian and Hungarian history - and mythology. English speakers have instead access to good book of Lucian Boia, as it's been translated to English: "Romania : borderland of Europe".

Another book that I recommend is "Boierii Mintii" by Sorin Adam Matei. It is a stifling critique of contemporary Romanian culture, as it compares to the culture of occidental countries. This book is available on Amazon. Unfortunately again, this book has not been translated.

And yes, you are right, Romania's extermination of Jews - and Gypsies, I would add - in WWII does not get the publicity and the reflection it deserves. Not to minimize crimes committed by Romanians, but I'll add that heinous crimes were committed against Romanian local population in WWII - mostly by the Soviet occupiers, resulting in the imprisonment and deportation of upwards of 10% of the Romanian population.

In my family, one grandfather was Jewish, and barely escaped being caught by the Nazis in occupied Paris. A second grandfather was sent to the Gulag by the occupying Communist forces, and got his health destroyed in three years of work at the infamous Dunare-Marea Neagra Canal. One grandmother was deported by the communist. And my seond grandmother was deported by the DeGaulle government from France at the end of WWII - even though she lived in France for 20 years prior and had fought in the French Resistance.

The problem with Marcus Tanner's piece is that it does not promote understanding, it just seeds hatred. It is poorly researched and historically inaccurate. How you seriously compare Transilvania to Kossovo? For one thing, ethnic Romanians form the large majority in Transilvania.

Yes there are some tensions and some bad actors on the ethnic front. But they are a marginal voice. Hungarians have rights, and are well represented in the Parliament in Bucharest. In fact, their party has been part of every government since 1990. There are three main non-ethnic parties in Romania, and the balance of power if of such nature that they can never form a government without cooping the UDMR, the ethnic Hungarian party.



Garbage.......
[info]aga72 wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 07:09 pm (UTC)
The article starts with a phone conversation with a bank teller about a black list. Fiction or not, i know when i am traveling to let know the bank if i want use their card. Frustration to don't find informations regard Hungarian king in Romania, don't make me describe a country as a Kosovo land between two bank tranzactions. After Decree of Turda wich openly called 'to expel or to exterminate in this country malefactors beonging to ANY nations, especially Romanians' since then is not a good place to search for Hungarian history in Romania and that was back in 1366. A statue of Matei Corvin is still in place in Cluj Napoca after the scarry mayor Funar. And the Disney style Orthodox cathedral, got mostly byzantyne style,with Moldavian accents.
Article is political than travel and stand just for a side.
George
Romanian ethnic, US citizen
PS
My best friend is an hungarian.
Sarmizegetusa
[info]matei_corvin wrote:
Monday, 2 March 2009 at 10:56 pm (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmizegetusa
Here's another place where you should go next time when you visit Romania. After you see this place ask yourself where was Mattias when my ancestors, Dacii, build this place and fought with Roman Empire's army.
One thing is for sure, if you want to be an "Independent" journalist, don't take sides. Listen, because there is more to Transylvania than Hungarians and Romanians.
Good luck with your next book!
Burebista
Ignorance
[info]bianca_po wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 02:56 pm (UTC)
I had more patience to read everything than you writing it. What can I say more besides the other Romanians said here? You are just an ignorant (better said "illiterate"). A simple search on Google could help you not to look like an amateur journalist.
In stead of making fun of our Churches and our History you should thank to our anciens cause you don't speak Turkish, you don't eat baclava and you don't hallow to Mohamed.
Everytime that I read something like "A few English researchers discovered..." I start laughing. What researchers??? Come on... "2 English researchers discovered that obesity accelerates the Global warming"....Come on... Give me a break! In deed, you (the English people) are superior. We just stand in your way of conquering the world.
I can see that you have more Romanian readers than English. It means that you are a great writer.
Anyway, I visited London and it's a very dark and dismal city. In spite of this, I am able to appreciate the History and the Culture.
If you realy wanna know more about Romania come again and I will take you on a trip and tell you everything about the History, the Culture, the people, the stories and the places.
Re: Ignorance
[info]amiens2009 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 09:39 pm (UTC)
Oh man, you are a very frustrated girl. Ican agree with you, that romanians, and hungarians were those who stopped the ottomans to rule Europe. But you should not critiisize the researches, what have you done, nothing, so please don't make any comments on that matter. I do not think that you would be a great tour guide, because you are not impartial, and in this case it matter, a lot!

Have a nice day!
Ginger bread houses around Sibiu\Hermannstadt
[info]dumimiti wrote:
Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 04:02 am (UTC)
As someone who was born in Sibiu and who spent his childhood in a village about 30 km away from Sibiu, I would like to point out that not all the "ginger bread houses" around Sibiu were built by the Saxons. My great grand father built the house, in which I spent a good part of the childhood, with an arhitecture very similiar to the saxon houses, even though we have no saxon blood in our family as far as I know. Since this architecture was adopted by the romanians living around Sibiu I was referring to it as more "southern transylvannian" architecture. In my opinion at least it started out as saxon but it became southern transylvannian. I am also curious as to why you are not mentioning in your article that according to some scholars Matthias's father was romanian (or at least partly romanian) and thus Matthias was partly romanian as well.
you fourgot to mention
[info]pisoias wrote:
Monday, 9 March 2009 at 09:28 am (UTC)
...why the saxons dissapeared... hitler took lots... and Stalin the rest...

And the fact that previously romanians were considered an underclass not allowed to live within the city walls... and the fact that the hungarians colonised Transilvania... And the simple fact that they used our churches and monasteries for target practice under Maria Theresa... Not so sorry about those are you? Again europe doesen't want us, I don't know why we bother...

And by the way... Matias Crai's father... was romanian... Iancu of Hunedoara...
Reply
[info]smile633 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 March 2009 at 08:49 am (UTC)
Hi again

I'm smile633

Yes,now i see i've done a mistake,and i'm sorry for it.Anyway all i wanted to say isn't the fact that there are x bilions of hungarians,i wanted to say that not all the romainians people are the same!!

I'm apologise again for my mistake.It wasn't intended
I'm Romainian and i proud of it,like the others said.
Congratulations for article and this comments.I'm glad to see that this article's readers are romainians[in majority].
observer
[info]rainy27 wrote:
Saturday, 28 March 2009 at 08:56 am (UTC)
Markus, to complete your interesting journey in Transylvania, most postings here show once again that Dracula is no fiction and that the magic word to summon his helpers is "TRANSYLVANIA".
ianvantransyl
[info]ianvantransyl wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 09:03 pm (UTC)
To my vocal fellow Romanians: You give too much weight to this, shallow and filled with gratuitous irony, travel report. It inscribes itself in the not so great and mostly extinct tradition of the English tourists which, for over a century and a half, wandered the world regarding the locals as a strange and somewhat inferior species of primates. Furthermore, the author probably has the excuse of a biased Hungarian guide, more than glad to impart his prejudice to a new and naive conversation partner.

To the potential travelers considering a journey to the "Land beyond the woods": Don't be deceived by the tone of this article and of some of the comments. Transylvania is NOT Kosovo. The sweet-rolling hills and endless forests, the wooden churches and gothic cathedrals, the medieval fortresses and peaceful villages, the ancient artisans and lively traditions, and last but not least the hospitality of the local people, Romanian, Hungarian or German, are just some of the obvious reasons to visit this old corner of Europe. One single thing I beg of you: try to judge us without preconceptions and listen to the both sides of the story.
as a transilavanian
[info]hoticeone wrote:
Monday, 20 April 2009 at 01:53 am (UTC)
I'm really taken aback by the fact that the guy compares transilavaina with kosovo or n irelend, places witch had a lot of violence in the past. How is that exactly, there is a minority living here? is that the only reson? i can really sense that the guy has a lot of hate towards romania, maybe personal issues. I am sick of this so called travel jornalists full of stereotypes, going to other countries, insulting people who live there and their history.
Re: as a transilavanian
[info]rainman87 wrote:
Thursday, 30 April 2009 at 10:38 pm (UTC)
You are comparing apples with pears, 'hoticeone'. Just think a little, why there was no violence in Transylvania... Which doesn't mean that there were no male casualties, but they were made to look like and classified under "natural" deaths. So many fathers, so many brothers, all dead "naturally". Please stop throwing around aimlessly with the term "hate", because you tend to derogate the feelings of the sons of murdered fathers or the feelings of hundreds of thousands depossessed of all their valuables. What do you expect from these, to be saints? But I do not think that the author of this article belongs to this cathegory, because then his article would have looked much differently. And the good news for you, 'hoticeone', is that many of your victims have indeed reached, deep inside, the level of sainthood, just like Job has. So there was and is for you no struggle with firearms, just the struggle with your own conscience.
Re: as a transilavanian
[info]hoticeone wrote:
Saturday, 2 May 2009 at 09:16 am (UTC)
that is exactly what are you doing with your pathetic comment actually which is mostly a big fat lie. the only connection with the truth is that a lot of people got depossessed of their valuables under communism, that happened for everyone by the way including my family for that matter. "good news for you, 'hoticeone', is that many of your victims".. if you trying a subtle personal attack is not really working out, maybe is too obvious, you should lie something more touchy next time.
Re: as a transilavanian
[info]rainman87 wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
Two aspects which make this discussion useless: 1. that you call yourself an independent mind and 2. that you call yourself a Tranylvanian, while your aggressive rethoric unmasks you as originating rather from Muntenia (something a real Transylvanian immediately recognizes).
Re: as a transilavanian
[info]hoticeone wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 11:08 am (UTC)
1st. I never said that and don't understand what you mean.
2nd. your comment is just another classic example of obvious stereotyping
Check the weather, wherever you're going