Tory Eurosceptics threaten 'all-out war' over Brussels
David Cameron's promise of a referendum in 2015 would come too late to placate his MPs and MEPs
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Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan resigned last week from the Tory frontbench in the European Parliament in protest against his party's stance on the Lisbon Treaty
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David Cameron has been given an 18-month deadline by a powerful band of Eurosceptic Tory MPs to renegotiate Britain's relationship with Brussels or face an "all-out war" for a referendum, it emerged yesterday.
The Conservative leader last week tried to buy more time from the Eurosceptic wing of his party by promising that the Tories' 2015 election manifesto would contain a promise for a referendum should the EU "move in the wrong direction".
Mr Cameron unveiled a list of proposals to assert Britain's sovereignty over Brussels and repatriate certain powers during the next Parliament, if the Tories win the 2010 election.
The shopping list was an attempt to placate his MPs and MEPs after he dropped a pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
But a senior Tory MP said yesterday that Mr Cameron would have to move quickly in the first year and a half of his premiership – and had to show "real progress" on his promises.
The MP said: "I don't think a promise of a referendum on Britain's relationship with the EU in more than five years will sit very well. He [Cameron] needs to make progress, within the first 18 months of his premiership. If he does, it will be his crowning glory, but if he doesn't, it will be a thorn in his side."
Another Eurosceptic backbencher said: "We have agreed to keep quiet on this before the election, but if things do not start happening in the first year or so, there will be all-out war for a referendum."
The warning from the band of Conservative MPs steps up the pressure on the Tory leader after the resignation of two Tory MEPs, Daniel Hannan and Roger Helmer, from the party's frontbench in the European Parliament. The issue threatens to spoil Mr Cameron's honeymoon as Prime Minister if he wins next spring.
Some 47 Tory MPs, including a handful of shadow ministers, signed a Commons motion last month that "insists that the Prime Minister rejects the [Lisbon] Reform Treaty ... and holds a referendum before or after ratification". Mr Helmer and Mr Hannan are both members of the Better Off Out group which wants the UK to withdraw from the EU. There are also five Tory MPs and eight Conservative peers who are members of the group.
The early-day motion was signed before the Czech government finally signed the treaty last week, triggering EU-wide ratification. The next day, Mr Cameron announced he could not hold a referendum on a treaty that had become enshrined in law. He won over many MPs who signed the motion by pledging a UK Sovereignty Bill and a "referendum lock" on a future treaty that ceded further powers to Brussels. But many Eurosceptic Tories have made it clear that the issue will not go away early in the next Parliament.
In a fresh development yesterday, Mr Helmer renewed his attack on the Tory leader's EU policy. He wrote that Mr Cameron's EU policy was "confused", adding: "We have said that now that the Lisbon Treaty is EU law, we are not in a position to repudiate it. Yet we have made a series of proposals which repudiate significant parts of it, and run counter to EU law. But as we all know, the supremacy of EU law is explicit in the Lisbon Treaty. If we accept Lisbon, we accept the supremacy of EU law." He added: "A 'referendum lock' will not work, because we have already thrown away the key. Our policy fails to recognise the self-amending nature of Lisbon."
Mr Helmer said he would campaign for a Tory victory in 2010, but added: "I can neither justify nor support our new EU policy. You can only defy the will of the people for so long."
But Tory MP Mark Pritchard, who had been critical of Mr Cameron, said yesterday: "I support the new policy. I hope it works. If it does not work I will work towards a referendum in the first term of any Conservative administration."
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Comments
Top 10 Tips To Stress-less Vacations
Well since then I have collected a list of "to do's" to make my travel go more smoothly. Since people travel all year round these days, I thought I'd share this list with you. Here's to stress-less vacations.
1. Carry on luggage
2. Keep a standard list of travel items on file, listing all the necessities
3. Identify your luggage with some personalized touch.
4. Stay hydrated while traveling, especially when you fly
5. Take small exercise breaks during your flight
...
Why should you accept this, since neither you or I were asked- as promised in the Labour manifesto - our opinion on the subject. Don't believe all you read in manifestos, believe in the Sun, the Star, or the Beano, but not manifestos. by the way, how useful do you find the tips to avoid the stress of vacations ?
One of my sons has a business in Southall where he says trade has become very slack. It would appear that the British Economy has suffered from too close a relationship to that of the USA, over which the Westminster Parliament lost control centuries ago. By contrast I live in the Eurozone, in Brittany and here local Tradesmen warn me that they are very busy and not available to do work before next summer.
British History and present day Economic Facts indicate that the only viable future for Great Britain is to take an ever closer part in the Union of the Peoples of Europe. The Right Honourable Mr., David Cameron M.P, must learn to talk sense to the manic members of his party.
The Reverend Peter M. Hawkins.
As the other 26 countries of the EU export far more to us than we do to them then if we leave they will be happy to negotiate a free trade agreement with us and we will also be able to go out and trade freely and without restraint with the rest of the world.
The Commonwealth is a vibrant bloc which we ignore at our peril.
Also it is clear that the EU is an atheist organisation , all reference to God was specifically excluded from the Rome/Maastricht/Lisbon Treaties even though the existence of a God is recognised by a clear majority of the EU's population and its religions , 3 of whom Christians, Muslims and Jews actually believe in the same God. EU institutions have also made life difficult for believers to follow their religion so the Reverend's support for an ungodly organisation is surprising.
As far as I'm concerned the EU social chapter, which includes employee rights, has been a good thing, and has gone some way to redressing the balance of power between workers and employers. Successive Tory governments in the 1980s and 1990s deprived employees of important rights hard won over the years, and since signing up to the EU social chapter matters like working hours and holidays as well as protection for agency workers has got better.
The Tories don't like the EU because it doesn't accept their nasty, repressive right wing agenda. Their shadow cabinet is full of people from privileged backgrounds who just don't understand the experiences and realities of those who are less fortunate. Maybe they just don't care? Who knows?
For all its faults, I've always supported our membership of the EU and will continue to do so. For many years we have been fed scare stories and disinformation by the reactionary sections of the British Press and Establishment. The reason for this is because they are scared we might discover that people in the rest of Europe might just do things better than us, and their societies might just be fairer to all.
There are a lot of rich and powerful people who do well out of keeping us ignorant about Europe, and who use the cloak of "independence" as a means to keep us peasants in our place. Beware of these wolves in sheeps clothing.
The Soviet Union once used to talk of "socialism in one country" and kept its citizens isolated from the rest of the world. The Tory Europhobes want to isolate us from our nearest neighbours. Ask yourself why? And look carefully at their real agenda. For ordinary people, these Tories are very bad news.
So if you are an ordinary employee and value you your employment rights, or if you value the facility of taking your case to the European court to gain justice, then give these Eurosceptics a wide berth. They want to "repatriate" these rights, or rather take them away. They want to put you in your place, tugging the forelock as you go past. We've come a long way from that, so let's not risk turning back the clock.
Your point can be well made without resort to "us" and "them"; it's peppered with "employee rights", "balance of power between workers and employers", "rights hard won", "employment rights", "tugging the forelock".
You continue with "nasty, repressive right wing agenda", "privileged backgrounds", "rich and powerful people ". Quite a number of Labour and LibDems MPs are effectively grandees, or didn't you notice them being parachuted, like the Arnhem raid, into safe seats, which they'd never heard of before their pre-selection?
The tone is straight out out of a time-warped "Socialist Weekly" rag. But who are you trying to convince?
It sounds like a Fred Kite (played by Peter Sellers) speech from the 1959 Boulting Brothers film, "I'm All Right Jack". Those "working" people don't exist anymore - many work under employment contracts where "terms and conditions" apply, not "employee rights" and "job descriptions".
Over in Australia, the mining industry employees are tremendously well-remunerated since they (mostly) dropped out of unions, productivity went through the roof and profitability drove a massive growth for the industry and the economy - note that Australia was one of the few not to go into recession.
The extreme socialist, French model would destroy the UK economy, just like the economy was destroyed in Britain by 1979. Those attitudes are long past being workable and the last vestiges of union millstones (like the Royal Mail) need to be stacked away.
It is very convenient for Cameron to allow the sceptics their head at the moment since it helps to make voters believe he will actually do something for fear of a rebellion . However as his 3 promises are not worth the paper they are written on so once in power he may make a lot of noise but he can do nothing in practice.
Anyone who really wants to see a change in our relationship with the EU has to support UKIP.
And then what, Jean? Once they have pulled the UK out of the EU, the rest of their strange policies will be introduced. I hope that people have read the full manifesto, but if they haven't:
http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-polici
Their manifesto reads like a populist, centre-spread from the Daily Mail, but, maybe that's what people want.....
And just to add balance: The full text of Lisbon can be found here:
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/full_tex
Of course it's difficult to fully understand, but find me a piece of legislation that isn't.
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Li
If there was ever a rabid Atlanticist it's him....
Do you really think that the BNP and UKIP have any positive contribution to make?
Wake up! Get onboard with the rest of Europe. Let's be positive about what can be done, or we can continue to roam aound the fringes, moaning and complaining.
I think that people just don't understand that the previous prosperous years of Britain being an economic powerhouse was because of the EU, not in spite of it.
The current economic crisis originated in the states and, were it not for the EU block, Britain would be in a far, far worse state.
What always amazes me is the mind of the Atlanticist. The USA is not interested in the UK. In these global times, these are the choices:
1. Independent UK
Would never be able to exist. Has neither the political nor economic clout to go it alone.
2. Part Of EU
Not just that, but a leader within the EU. Mainly rejected by the British public for xenophobic, emotional reasons.
3. 51st State of the USA
And with less political clout than California or Texas, whose GDPs outstrip us.
Face it Britain - The future will never again be decided in London (unless with China or Russia's help).
Brussels or Washington?
This is about BRITAIN!
This is about our government signing away our laws and our liberties!
We can be a part of Europe...we can respect their laws and work as a partner with them...
We can not accept that TWO Prime Ministers in a position of trust have turned their backs on the country they serve and the people they are/ were paid to protect. They trashed and disregarded hundreds of years of law and common law and imposed an unelected foreign power over us.
Maybe the EU is a good thing... but we should have a voice!
This was a democracy and we were proud to stand behind our government... proud to stand behind our Queen... they have betrayed the people of this country and the trust given to them.
That is Treason and betrayal of everything this country stands for
You have more rights than ever before.
Put simply, and in individual terms, what was it that we used to be able to do that we now cannot?
1) Get fully integrated into the EU as a group of equals with a powerful collective voice on the world stage and prosper.
2) Maintain the status quo: Be a subsidiary state in the US Imperium with no real input.
3) Go totally independent and sink like a stone.
Take your pick.
The EU isn't self appointed. 27 heads of national government decide on the running of it. We are all free to vote for one of the parties that would withdraw from the EU - something the Lisbon treaty specifically allows for.
All this guff about "sovereignty" is mistaken. Lines on maps simply don't mean what they once did. We live in a very interconnected world. If one country asserts its "sovereignty" and cuts taxes, or embarks on some huge scheme, or whatever, the markets will soon punish that country's currency or government paper if the government's action is deemed unwise. A government's freedom to do as it will is a tiny, tiny fraction of what it once was, especially for a country in decline like Britain.
We have to decide what is more important - "sovereignty" or prosperity.
The EU needs to improve its democratic processes, to be sure, but the EU's defects do not make it our enemy. It needs fixing, not abandoning.
So, how are you going to go about it when things suit other countries but not our own country?
Open borders for instance?
When the bigger, stronger countries want the plan and we are sinking under the weight of immigration and migration... how exactly are you going to 'change the situation' when you say yourself it takes 27 countries to agree a change!
It's not ALL about money and finance its about how we LIVE in this country when the EU rule every aspect of our lives.
If we wanted to quit in a boom we would lose a LOT... but we are NOT in a boom and we have already lost the biggest part of our assets... do you really think the EU will give them back just to make things easier for us?
After nearly 70 years on this planet I can tell you one thing... NO ONE will help anyone unless they have a payoff... we have to help OURSELVES and when you hit bottom as we very nearly have... don't hide behind the parapet and whine.. EU is good... Europe will get us out of this.
WE will get us out of it if there is enough spine in the country to stand up and DO it!
Are you still asleep then?
Have you not noticed the the EU Human Rights Act has been imposing changes here since it was taken as our law by Saint Tony?
Have you not noticed that more criminals are getting shorter (ridiculous) sentences?
That the Political Correctness Brigade have make free speech something you think about before you open your mouth? Like a child of nine was escorted out of the playground and subjected to a scary experience by having her parents called to school and warned the child had called her best friend 'blacky' and both children accepted the friendly banter as a joke?
What planet do you live on, my friend?
Britain has the highest proportion of its population behind bars of any country in Europe. Look it up.
As it happens, I think human rights are a pretty good idea, and I'm more than happy for them to be enshrined in our law. In case you've not noticed, our own government (Labour and Tory) only ever tries to take them away!
People do stupid things all the time - especially in the name of PC. The school incident you describe is one of them. What has this to do with the EU.
I think it is you who might like to wake up and check your facts.
You forgot to make an argument in your eloquent post.
"Better off out..." - Why?
"...It has all the power it could ever want.." - What powers are you referring to?
"...our sovereignty is lost..." - How and in what way and what is sovereignty in this day and age?
"the only way is OUT of the EU altogether " - Exactly what are you trying to escape from?
We seem to have forgotten that the EU has (up till now) put a stop to wars within its borders, and to most people involved in the last two world wars that's far more important than sovereignty.
Some threat from these pointless politicians. Go take a stress-less vacation.
Many stauch conservative supporters will now vote UKIP or BNP.
The general feeling on the street is No Vote For Us then No Vote For Cameron.
At least Betty and Phil still dine on cake and cucumber sandwiches at afternoon tea, and are driven around in German cars......back to the family roots!
I honour your opinion… I hope you will honour mine.
You see, I was born into a country that knew patriotism… that is love of country if you have never come across the word…. It was a country where you were taught respect and had to work to get what you wanted and if you didn’t get everything then you worked until you could afford the things you didn’t have.
Over the years I have seen the rise of the unions that demanded more money for less work. The destruction of the unions and the selling off of utilities to pull the economy back, followed by the signing of treaties that sold our history and birthright. The rise of Tony Blair, the beginning of the benefit dependency making it possible for those often too lazy to work to be ‘kept’ by the rest who worked and paid tax.
The mass immigration that turned many areas of our cities into no-go areas and please don’t say it was always like that because I was born and raised in the poor backstreets of our second city and for all it’s imperfections it was far from a no-go.
I look round now and I don’t recognise my country…. I don’t recognise the young people who drink until they vomit in the street… the gangs who beat up and sometimes kill innocent people… the school kids who bully without mercy and mouth a teacher trying to educate them. I don’t recognise a government and a monarch who sell my country to a foreign power without the courtesy and honour to even allow the people to have a say. Most of all I do not recognise a Prime Minister who can destroy our economy with a ‘scorched earth’ policy for no other reason than to render it beyond repair for the next government to take over.
But if you think that is acceptable then that’s fine…. I wish you well of it… I’ve had most of my time so you are the ones who have to live with it.
1- My freedom to decide, with my boss how many hours a week I work, without applying for permission to Nanny EU
2-The British Governments ability to protect public services, e,g the Post Office, if it wants to.
3- My wish to have an English Parliament, not a regionalised England as planned by the EU.
4- The British Governments ability to ensure that the Utilities remain in British hands. Wonder why EDF still exists?
2. The British government pressed the EU to introduce so-called competition in postal services
3. Nothing to do with the EU. Scotland has it's own parliament so could England if enough English people wanted one.
4. It was not the EU that forced the British to sell off their utilities into the private sector