Train firm gets rid of toilets to cram in passengers

One of Britain's busiest rail commuter networks wants to introduce trains with fewer seats and no lavatories so that nearly 1,000 passengers can be crammed on board a four-carriage train.

If the controversial plans by Connex South Eastern are approved travellers could be forced to endure such conditions for more than 40 minutes at a time. Up to 934 passengers would be expected to use the new four-carriage trains, with 156 of them seated and 778 standing. When full, seven people would occupy every square metre of floor space.

The company, which operates in London, Kent and Sussex, wants to run London Underground-style services on its busy "metro" routes in south-east London and as far out as Hayes and Dartford.

When services are running normally, it takes 42 minutes to get from Dartford to Charing Cross. The new trains would have considerably fewer seats so that more passengers can stand "in comfort".

New lavatories on stations – Connex has closed many of the old facilities – would replace those installed on trains. The company concedes that many of the supposedly vandal-proof lavatories on their Networker trains are often damaged and the company is having difficulty keeping up with their maintenance.

Glen Charles, Connex's commercial director, said the company would only press ahead with the plan after full consultation with "stakeholders", including passenger groups.

The proposals have been put to the Strategic Rail Authority, which will make the final decision. Mr Charles said: "The new trains would not be meant for long-distance services. It's a question of asking ourselves and all other interested parties how many seats we need.

"Perhaps in the past we have just pressed ahead with projects on the basis that we know best. This time there will be a thorough consultation."

He said the company had to find a way to come to terms with the growing number of passengers using Connex services, adding that its routes in south-east London already operated as if they were extensions of the London Underground network, with services turning up every 15 minutes.

"People don't consult their timetables for an eight-minute journey from Lewisham to London Bridge, they just turn up and go, like they do with the Tube," he said.

However, Mr Charles admitted that the company was disappointed with the response to the plan. "It seems as if we're damned if we do and damned if we don't," he said.

Mr Charles added that although it took 42 minutes to get from Dartford to Charing Cross, normally people were only forced to stand for the last 15 minutes. He pointed out that the limit laid down in Strategic Rail Authority guidelines was 20 minutes.

Peter Lawrence, chairman of the pressure group Rail Future, said the strategy would have to be carefully scrutinised. "Overcrowding is an extreme problem in that area. Building new rolling stock to allow extra passengers is a good thing, but at the same time I'd hope, whatever design is decided on, that passenger comfort will be looked at also.

Wendy Toms, chairwoman of the southern England region of the Rail Passengers Council, said it would oppose extending the scheme.

Meanwhile, under the threat of legal action, the company has withdrawn a plan to introduce a tougher new system for fining fare dodgers. The new regime was to come into force next Tuesday but has now been postponed until April.

Passengers' representatives were preparing for a court case on the basis that many stations did not have operational ticket machines and were not staffed.