Noise saw staff at the US embassy in Havana complain of headaches, nausea and hearing loss
(
Getty/ Yamil Lage
)
In November 2016, US diplomats in Cuba complained of persistent, high-pitched sounds followed by a range of symptoms, including headaches, nausea and hearing loss.
Exams of nearly two dozen of them eventually revealed signs of concussions or other brain injuries, and speculation about the cause turned to weapons that blast sound or microwaves.
Amid an international uproar, a recording of the droning was widely circulated in the news media.
Download the new Independent Premium app
Sharing the full story, not just the headlines
On Friday, two scientists presented evidence that those sounds were not so mysterious after all. They were made by crickets, the researchers concluded.
The scientists did not rule out that the diplomats had been attacked – only that the recording is not of a sonic weapon, as had been suggested.
Alexander Stubbs of the University of California, Berkeley, and Fernando Montealegre-Z of the University of Lincoln in England studied a recording of the sounds made by diplomats and published by the Associated Press (AP).
“There’s plenty of debate in the medical community over what, if any, physical damage there is to these individuals,” said Stubbs in a phone interview. “All I can say fairly definitively is that the AP-released recording is of a cricket, and we think we know what species it is.”
Mr Stubbs presented the results of the analysis at the annual meeting of the Society of Integrative and Comparative Biology. Both he and Mr Montealegre-Z also posted an early version of their study online. They plan to submit the paper to a scientific journal in the next few days.
When Mr Stubbs first heard the recording, he was reminded of insects he came across while doing field work in the Caribbean. When he and Mr Montealegre-Z downloaded the sound file, they found that its acoustic patterns – such as the rate of pulses and the strongest frequencies – were very similar to the songs of certain kinds of insects.
Male singing insects produce regular patterns during courtship. Females are attracted to certain males based on their songs, which has led to the evolution of different songs in different species.
World news in pictures
Show all 50
World news in pictures
1/50 25 May 2020
The aerobatic demonstration team 'Frecce Tricolori' of the Italian Air Force flies in formation above the Milan Cathedral. Starting from 25 May, the Frecce Tricolori will perform every day in the skies throughout Italy as part of the 74th anniversary celebrations of the founding of the Italian Republic and to pay homage to the areas most affected by the coronavirus
EPA
2/50 24 May 2020
Saudi Arabia's holy city of Mecca during the early hours of Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim holiday which starts at the conclusion of the holy fasting month of Ramadan
AFP via Getty
3/50 23 May 2020
Tamika Eastley, left, and Anthony Ragusa work out as the sun sets over the Kangaroo Point Cliffs in Brisbane, Australia
EPA
4/50 22 May 2020
Firefighters spray water on the wreckage of a Pakistan International Airlines aircraft after it crashed into a residential area in Karachi
AFP via Getty
5/50 21 May 2020
Indigenous leader Kretan Kaingang wears a face mask with a hashtag that reads in Portuguese: "Get out Bolsonaro" during a protest demanding the impeachment of President Jair Bolsonaro outside the National Congress in Brasilia, Brazil, Thursday, May 21, 2020. As Brazil careens toward a full-blown public health emergency and economic meltdown, opponents have filed a request for Bolsonaro's impeachment based on his mishandling of the new coronavirus pandemic. (AP Photo/Eraldo Peres)
AP
6/50 20 May 2020
People wait in line to undergo the coronavirus tests while keeping distance from each other at a makeshift clinic set up on a playground in Incheon, South Korea
Yonhap/AP
7/50 19 May 2020
Firefighters fighting a fire at a plastics factory in front of a huge cloud of smoke in Ladenburg, Germany
dpa via AP
8/50 18 May 2020
Ugandan academic Stella Nyanzi reacts as police officers detain her for protesting against the way that government distributes the relief food and lockdown situation in Kampala
Reuters
9/50 17 May 2020
A woman sits alone on a bench in a park following the outbreak of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), in Dublin, Ireland
Reuters
10/50 16 May 2020
Crematory workers using protective gear are pictured at a crematory in Nezahualcoyotl during the outbreak of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), on the outskirts of Mexico City, Mexico
Reuters
11/50 15 May 2020
Healthcare workers, nurses and doctors, unified under the movement called "Take Care of Care" wearing face masks protest against the Belgian authorities' management of the coronavirus crisis, at the MontLegia CHC Hospital
Reuters
12/50 14 May 2020
A girl watches over goats on the banks of the Dal Lake during rainfall in Srinagar
AFP via Getty Images
13/50 13 May 2020
Life-size cardboard figures with photos of football fans are positioned on the stands of Borussia Moenchengladbach's football stadium for their next game, which will be played without spectators, due to the coronavirus outbreak in Germany
Reuters
14/50 12 May 2020
Nurses wearing face masks take part in an event held to mark International Nurses Day, at Wuhan Tongji Hospital in China
China Daily via Reuters
15/50 11 May 2020
Iraqi protesters gather on the Al-Jumhuriyah bridge in the capital Baghdad during an anti-government demonstration. Modest anti-government rallies resumed in some Iraqi cities Sunday, clashing with security forces and ending months of relative calm just days after Prime Minister Mustafa Kadhemi's government came to power. The protests first erupted in Baghdad and Shiite-majority southern cities in October, demanding an end to corruption and unemployment and an overhaul of the ruling class
AFP via Getty
16/50 10 May 2020
A man wearing a mask walks his dog in Madrid during the hours allowed by the government to exercise. Spain's two biggest cities, Madrid and Barcelona, will not enter the next phase out of coronavirus lockdown along with many other regions next week
AFP via Getty
17/50 9 May 2020
Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses the nation after laying flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier near the Kremlin wall in Moscow, Russia. Russia marks the 75th anniversary since the capitulation of Nazi Germany in WWII amid the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic
EPA
18/50 8 May 2020
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, President of the German Parliament Bundestag Wolfgang Schaeuble, German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, President of the Federal Council Bundesrat in Germany Dietmar Woidke and the presiding judge of the German Federal Constitutional Court's second senate, Andreas Vosskuhle attend wreath-laying ceremony to mark the 75th anniversary of the end of World War Two, at the Neue Wache Memorial in Berlin. Countries in Europe are commemorating the Victory in Europe Day, known as VE Day that celebrates Nazi Germany's surrender during World World II on 8 May 1945
EPA
19/50 7 May 2020
A policeman uses his baton to push a resident breaking rules, during an extended nationwide lockdown to slow down the spread of coronavirus in Ahmedabad, India
Reuters
20/50 6 May 2020
A nurse tends to a crying newborn baby wearing a face shield at the National Maternity Hospital in Hanoi
AFP via Getty
21/50 5 May 2020
Bride Janine runs over to her wedding at a Drive-in cinema in Duesseldorf, Germany. The Drive-in theatre started to register official marriages on a stage, allowing all relatives and friends to attend in their cars, as weddings at the registry office are limited due to the coronavirus pandemic
AP
22/50 4 May 2020
Storekeepers asking for the reopening of shops and commercial activities gather for a flashmob protest on Piazza San Marco in Venice, as Italy starts to ease its lockdown
AFP via Getty
23/50 3 May 2020
A street vendor wearing a protective face mask waits for customers in Chinatown, after the government started opening some restaurants outside shopping malls, parks, and barbershops in Bangkok, Thailand
Reuters
24/50 2 May 2020
Two women carry longboards on an esplanade in Barcelona, during the hours allowed by the government to exercise, for the first time since the beginning of a national lockdown. All Spaniards are again allowed to leave their homes since today to walk or play sports after 48 days of very strict confinement to curb the coronavirus pandemic
AFP via Getty
25/50 1 May 2020
A girl, wearing a protective mask, plays with bubbles at a shopping mall in Gimpo, South Korea
Reuters
26/50 30 April 2020
Buddhist monks wearing face masks pray during Buddha's birthday at the Gwanghwamun Plaza in Seoul, South Korea
AP
27/50 29 April 2020
A visitor in a plexiglass lock talks to a resident at Les Jardins d'Astrid, a rest home in Maurage, La Louviere, on April 29, 2020, as the visits to residents of rest homes are possible from today in Wallonia. - Belgium is in its seventh week of confinement in the ongoing corona virus crisis. The government has announced a phased plan to attempt an exit from the lockdown situation in the country, continuing to avoid the spread of Covid-19
Belga/AFP/Getty
28/50 28 April 2020
A demonstrator is seen near a bank on fire during unrest, as an economic crisis brings demonstrations back onto the streets in Tripoli, Lebanon April 28, 2020
Reuters
29/50 27 April 2020
A medical specialist walks out of a mobile laboratory, which is carrying out coronavirus tests
Reuters
30/50 26 April 2020
People wearing protective face masks practice social distancing as they pray outside a church in Kiev near the memorial dedicated to firefighters and workers who died after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, on the 34th anniversary of the event
Reuters
31/50 25 April 2020
Surfers walk during a sunrise at Recreio dos Bandeirantes beach, amid the coronavirus outbreak, in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Reuters
32/50 24 April 2020
Inmates from Villa Devoto prison take part in a riot demanding measures to prevent the spread of coronavirus after a case was confirmed inside the prison, in Buenos Aires
AFP via Getty
33/50 23 April 2020
The cruise ship Ruby Princess departs from Port Kembla, south of Sydney, , after a few hundred virus-free crew members disembarked to begin the process of repatriation to their home countries
AFP/Getty
34/50 22 April 2020
An activist performs on the roof during Earth Day in Wroclaw, Poland
Agencja Gazeta via Reuters
35/50 21 April 2020
Malaysian army personnel set up barbed wire in the locked down area of Selayang wholesale market in Kuala Lumpur
EPA
36/50 20 April 2020
A trader walks inside a pen as he arrives to purchase vegetables and fruits at the Agricultural Produce Market Committee market in Navi Mumbai during the nationwide lockdown
AFP via Getty
37/50 19 April 2020
A bride, poses for a wedding photographer next to East Lake in Wuhan
AFP via Getty
38/50 18 April 2020
People shout at police officers during a demonstration of conspiracy theorists as other demonstrators protest against the lockdown imposed to slow the spread of the coronavirus in Berlin
Reuters
39/50 17 April 2020
A pair of rare morepork owl chicks have become the first in more than a decade to survive on Norfolk Island, in the South Pacific
Parks Australia/Monash University
40/50 16 April 2020
A squirrel runs across a fence as the sun shines in Berlin's Kreuzberg district
AFP via Getty
41/50 15 April 2020
Election officials count after general election voting in Seoul, South Korea
EPA
42/50 14 April 2020
Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, which was damaged in a devastating fire one year ago today
Reuters
43/50 13 April 2020
Wild bluebells, which bloom around mid-April turning the forest blue as they form a carpet, pictured in the Hallerbos in Belgium
Reuters
44/50 12 April 2020
Pope Francis delivers his Urbi et Orbi message following Easter Sunday Mass behind closed doors at St Peter's Basilica in The Vatican, during the country's lockdown
Vatican media/AFP via Getty
45/50 11 April 2020
A man watches Krakatau spewing ash during an eruption, in Serang, Indonesia's Banten province
AFP via Getty
46/50 10 April 2020
Women queue for distribution of food for those suffering under Kenya's coronavirus-related movement restrictions
AP
47/50 9 April 2020
Firefighter Sittiporn Singthong, dressed up as Spider-Man, sprays disinfectant at the Wat Tha Mai Buddhist temple in Samut Sakhon province, Thailand
EPA
48/50 8 April 2020
Tulip fields in Plomeur, western France
AFP via Getty
49/50 7 April 2020
A employee and a resident of the house for the elderly "De Ravenstein" react as nurses dance and sing in the garden, following the coronavirus disease outbreak, in Boortmeerbeek, Belgium
Reuters
50/50 6 April 2020
A man stands in the balcony of his home with the moon in the background in Cali, Colombia
AFP via Getty
1/50 25 May 2020
The aerobatic demonstration team 'Frecce Tricolori' of the Italian Air Force flies in formation above the Milan Cathedral. Starting from 25 May, the Frecce Tricolori will perform every day in the skies throughout Italy as part of the 74th anniversary celebrations of the founding of the Italian Republic and to pay homage to the areas most affected by the coronavirus
EPA
2/50 24 May 2020
Saudi Arabia's holy city of Mecca during the early hours of Eid al-Fitr, the Muslim holiday which starts at the conclusion of the holy fasting month of Ramadan
AFP via Getty
3/50 23 May 2020
Tamika Eastley, left, and Anthony Ragusa work out as the sun sets over the Kangaroo Point Cliffs in Brisbane, Australia
EPA
4/50 22 May 2020
Firefighters spray water on the wreckage of a Pakistan International Airlines aircraft after it crashed into a residential area in Karachi
AFP via Getty
5/50 21 May 2020
Indigenous leader Kretan Kaingang wears a face mask with a hashtag that reads in Portuguese: "Get out Bolsonaro" during a protest demanding the impeachment of President Jair Bolsonaro outside the National Congress in Brasilia, Brazil, Thursday, May 21, 2020. As Brazil careens toward a full-blown public health emergency and economic meltdown, opponents have filed a request for Bolsonaro's impeachment based on his mishandling of the new coronavirus pandemic. (AP Photo/Eraldo Peres)
AP
6/50 20 May 2020
People wait in line to undergo the coronavirus tests while keeping distance from each other at a makeshift clinic set up on a playground in Incheon, South Korea
Yonhap/AP
7/50 19 May 2020
Firefighters fighting a fire at a plastics factory in front of a huge cloud of smoke in Ladenburg, Germany
dpa via AP
8/50 18 May 2020
Ugandan academic Stella Nyanzi reacts as police officers detain her for protesting against the way that government distributes the relief food and lockdown situation in Kampala
Reuters
9/50 17 May 2020
A woman sits alone on a bench in a park following the outbreak of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), in Dublin, Ireland
Reuters
10/50 16 May 2020
Crematory workers using protective gear are pictured at a crematory in Nezahualcoyotl during the outbreak of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), on the outskirts of Mexico City, Mexico
Reuters
11/50 15 May 2020
Healthcare workers, nurses and doctors, unified under the movement called "Take Care of Care" wearing face masks protest against the Belgian authorities' management of the coronavirus crisis, at the MontLegia CHC Hospital
Reuters
12/50 14 May 2020
A girl watches over goats on the banks of the Dal Lake during rainfall in Srinagar
AFP via Getty Images
13/50 13 May 2020
Life-size cardboard figures with photos of football fans are positioned on the stands of Borussia Moenchengladbach's football stadium for their next game, which will be played without spectators, due to the coronavirus outbreak in Germany
Reuters
14/50 12 May 2020
Nurses wearing face masks take part in an event held to mark International Nurses Day, at Wuhan Tongji Hospital in China
China Daily via Reuters
15/50 11 May 2020
Iraqi protesters gather on the Al-Jumhuriyah bridge in the capital Baghdad during an anti-government demonstration. Modest anti-government rallies resumed in some Iraqi cities Sunday, clashing with security forces and ending months of relative calm just days after Prime Minister Mustafa Kadhemi's government came to power. The protests first erupted in Baghdad and Shiite-majority southern cities in October, demanding an end to corruption and unemployment and an overhaul of the ruling class
AFP via Getty
16/50 10 May 2020
A man wearing a mask walks his dog in Madrid during the hours allowed by the government to exercise. Spain's two biggest cities, Madrid and Barcelona, will not enter the next phase out of coronavirus lockdown along with many other regions next week
AFP via Getty
17/50 9 May 2020
Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses the nation after laying flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier near the Kremlin wall in Moscow, Russia. Russia marks the 75th anniversary since the capitulation of Nazi Germany in WWII amid the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic
EPA
18/50 8 May 2020
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, President of the German Parliament Bundestag Wolfgang Schaeuble, German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, President of the Federal Council Bundesrat in Germany Dietmar Woidke and the presiding judge of the German Federal Constitutional Court's second senate, Andreas Vosskuhle attend wreath-laying ceremony to mark the 75th anniversary of the end of World War Two, at the Neue Wache Memorial in Berlin. Countries in Europe are commemorating the Victory in Europe Day, known as VE Day that celebrates Nazi Germany's surrender during World World II on 8 May 1945
EPA
19/50 7 May 2020
A policeman uses his baton to push a resident breaking rules, during an extended nationwide lockdown to slow down the spread of coronavirus in Ahmedabad, India
Reuters
20/50 6 May 2020
A nurse tends to a crying newborn baby wearing a face shield at the National Maternity Hospital in Hanoi
AFP via Getty
21/50 5 May 2020
Bride Janine runs over to her wedding at a Drive-in cinema in Duesseldorf, Germany. The Drive-in theatre started to register official marriages on a stage, allowing all relatives and friends to attend in their cars, as weddings at the registry office are limited due to the coronavirus pandemic
AP
22/50 4 May 2020
Storekeepers asking for the reopening of shops and commercial activities gather for a flashmob protest on Piazza San Marco in Venice, as Italy starts to ease its lockdown
AFP via Getty
23/50 3 May 2020
A street vendor wearing a protective face mask waits for customers in Chinatown, after the government started opening some restaurants outside shopping malls, parks, and barbershops in Bangkok, Thailand
Reuters
24/50 2 May 2020
Two women carry longboards on an esplanade in Barcelona, during the hours allowed by the government to exercise, for the first time since the beginning of a national lockdown. All Spaniards are again allowed to leave their homes since today to walk or play sports after 48 days of very strict confinement to curb the coronavirus pandemic
AFP via Getty
25/50 1 May 2020
A girl, wearing a protective mask, plays with bubbles at a shopping mall in Gimpo, South Korea
Reuters
26/50 30 April 2020
Buddhist monks wearing face masks pray during Buddha's birthday at the Gwanghwamun Plaza in Seoul, South Korea
AP
27/50 29 April 2020
A visitor in a plexiglass lock talks to a resident at Les Jardins d'Astrid, a rest home in Maurage, La Louviere, on April 29, 2020, as the visits to residents of rest homes are possible from today in Wallonia. - Belgium is in its seventh week of confinement in the ongoing corona virus crisis. The government has announced a phased plan to attempt an exit from the lockdown situation in the country, continuing to avoid the spread of Covid-19
Belga/AFP/Getty
28/50 28 April 2020
A demonstrator is seen near a bank on fire during unrest, as an economic crisis brings demonstrations back onto the streets in Tripoli, Lebanon April 28, 2020
Reuters
29/50 27 April 2020
A medical specialist walks out of a mobile laboratory, which is carrying out coronavirus tests
Reuters
30/50 26 April 2020
People wearing protective face masks practice social distancing as they pray outside a church in Kiev near the memorial dedicated to firefighters and workers who died after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, on the 34th anniversary of the event
Reuters
31/50 25 April 2020
Surfers walk during a sunrise at Recreio dos Bandeirantes beach, amid the coronavirus outbreak, in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Reuters
32/50 24 April 2020
Inmates from Villa Devoto prison take part in a riot demanding measures to prevent the spread of coronavirus after a case was confirmed inside the prison, in Buenos Aires
AFP via Getty
33/50 23 April 2020
The cruise ship Ruby Princess departs from Port Kembla, south of Sydney, , after a few hundred virus-free crew members disembarked to begin the process of repatriation to their home countries
AFP/Getty
34/50 22 April 2020
An activist performs on the roof during Earth Day in Wroclaw, Poland
Agencja Gazeta via Reuters
35/50 21 April 2020
Malaysian army personnel set up barbed wire in the locked down area of Selayang wholesale market in Kuala Lumpur
EPA
36/50 20 April 2020
A trader walks inside a pen as he arrives to purchase vegetables and fruits at the Agricultural Produce Market Committee market in Navi Mumbai during the nationwide lockdown
AFP via Getty
37/50 19 April 2020
A bride, poses for a wedding photographer next to East Lake in Wuhan
AFP via Getty
38/50 18 April 2020
People shout at police officers during a demonstration of conspiracy theorists as other demonstrators protest against the lockdown imposed to slow the spread of the coronavirus in Berlin
Reuters
39/50 17 April 2020
A pair of rare morepork owl chicks have become the first in more than a decade to survive on Norfolk Island, in the South Pacific
Parks Australia/Monash University
40/50 16 April 2020
A squirrel runs across a fence as the sun shines in Berlin's Kreuzberg district
AFP via Getty
41/50 15 April 2020
Election officials count after general election voting in Seoul, South Korea
EPA
42/50 14 April 2020
Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, which was damaged in a devastating fire one year ago today
Reuters
43/50 13 April 2020
Wild bluebells, which bloom around mid-April turning the forest blue as they form a carpet, pictured in the Hallerbos in Belgium
Reuters
44/50 12 April 2020
Pope Francis delivers his Urbi et Orbi message following Easter Sunday Mass behind closed doors at St Peter's Basilica in The Vatican, during the country's lockdown
Vatican media/AFP via Getty
45/50 11 April 2020
A man watches Krakatau spewing ash during an eruption, in Serang, Indonesia's Banten province
AFP via Getty
46/50 10 April 2020
Women queue for distribution of food for those suffering under Kenya's coronavirus-related movement restrictions
AP
47/50 9 April 2020
Firefighter Sittiporn Singthong, dressed up as Spider-Man, sprays disinfectant at the Wat Tha Mai Buddhist temple in Samut Sakhon province, Thailand
EPA
48/50 8 April 2020
Tulip fields in Plomeur, western France
AFP via Getty
49/50 7 April 2020
A employee and a resident of the house for the elderly "De Ravenstein" react as nurses dance and sing in the garden, following the coronavirus disease outbreak, in Boortmeerbeek, Belgium
Reuters
50/50 6 April 2020
A man stands in the balcony of his home with the moon in the background in Cali, Colombia
AFP via Getty
If the sounds heard by the diplomats were made by insects, Mr Stubbs and Mr Montealegre-Z reasoned, it might be possible to pinpoint the particular species.
To search for a match, the researchers analysed field recordings of North American insects stored in an online database at the University of Florida.
They found a striking resemblance to one species in particular: the Indies short-tailed cricket.
Yet the cricket’s song differs from the Cuban recording in one important respect. The noises heard by the diplomats were erratic, while the insects make high-pitched, rapid-fire pulses.
Stubbs suspected that this mismatch might be an artefact of the recording itself. Diplomats made their recordings inside houses, while biologists have recorded the crickets in the wild.
So Stubbs played the cricket recording in a house. As the calls bounced off the walls, they echoed in a pattern similar to the irregular pulses heard on the Cuban recording.
The song of the Indies short-tailed cricket “matches, in nuanced detail, the AP recording in duration, pulse repetition rate, power spectrum, pulse rate stability, and oscillations per pulse”, the scientists wrote in their analysis.
Experts on cricket songs said the analysis was well done. “It all seems to make sense,” said Gerald Pollack of McGill University, who studies acoustic communication among insects. “It’s a pretty well supported hypothesis.”
Mr Stubbs said that his conclusion does not rule out an attack on US diplomats. But he said the sounds linked to the initial complaints may have been a "red herring".
“It’s entirely possible that they got sick with some other completely unrelated thing that was not a sonic attack, or that they were targeted in some other way,” he said.
Support free-thinking journalism and subscribe to Independent Minds
Dr Douglas Smith, who led the medical examination of the US diplomats, questioned how much a single recording could reveal about the experience. Some patients did not report hearing anything unusual, he noted, while others heard a range of sounds.
“It could be like a low-tone motor, or metal scraping, or like driving in a car with the back window open,” said Dr Smith, director of the Centre for Brain Injury and Repair at the University of Pennsylvania.
Dr Smith would not rule out the possibility that some diplomats might have heard crickets but said that had no bearing on the real damage they have suffered.
“These patients have gone through a lot,” he added. “I would like to know what the sounds are, but for us the more important thing is really what’s going on in the patients’ brains and what we can do about it.”
Subscribe to Independent Premium to debate the big issues
Want to discuss real-world problems, be involved in the most engaging discussions and hear from the journalists? Start your Independent Premium subscription today.
Independent Premium Comments can be posted by members of our membership scheme, Independent Premium.
It allows our most engaged readers to debate the big issues, share their own experiences, discuss
real-world solutions, and more. Our journalists will try to respond by joining the threads when
they can to create a true meeting of independent Premium. The most insightful comments on all subjects
will be published daily in dedicated articles. You can also choose to be emailed when someone replies
to your comment.
The existing Open Comments threads will continue to exist for those who do not subscribe to
Independent Premium. Due to the sheer scale of this comment community, we are not able to give each post
the same level of attention, but we have preserved this area in the interests of open debate. Please
continue to respect all commenters and create constructive debates.
Comments
Share your thoughts and debate the big issues
Please be respectful when making a comment and adhere to our Community Guidelines.
You can find our Community Guidelines in full here.
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Newest first
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Oldest first
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Most liked
{{/moreThanOne}}Please be respectful when making a comment and adhere to our Community Guidelines.
You can find our Community Guidelines in full here.
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Newest first
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Oldest first
- -1) ? 'active' : ''">
Most liked
{{/moreThanOne_p}}Follow comments
Vote
Report Comment
Subscribe to Independent Premium to debate the big issues
Want to discuss real-world problems, be involved in the most engaging discussions and hear from the journalists? Start your Independent Premium subscription today.
Already registered? Log inReport Comment
Delete Comment
About The Independent commenting
Independent Premium Comments can be posted by members of our membership scheme, Independent Premium. It allows our most engaged readers to debate the big issues, share their own experiences, discuss real-world solutions, and more. Our journalists will try to respond by joining the threads when they can to create a true meeting of independent Premium. The most insightful comments on all subjects will be published daily in dedicated articles. You can also choose to be emailed when someone replies to your comment.
The existing Open Comments threads will continue to exist for those who do not subscribe to Independent Premium. Due to the sheer scale of this comment community, we are not able to give each post the same level of attention, but we have preserved this area in the interests of open debate. Please continue to respect all commenters and create constructive debates.