The reign of King John; THE MONDAY INTERVIEW

John Charles will be 65 on Friday. Ken Jones shared some fond memories with one of the greatest players of all time on a trip to the Welshman's home in Yorkshire

History rewritten. Sweden 1958. John Charles causes a sensation with a marvellous header that sends Brazil out of the World Cup. In truth, Brazil defeated Wales 1-0 in the quarter-finals with a goal fluked by the 17-year-old Pele and went on to win the tournament - but what if Charles had been able to turn out?

The particular target for violent tackling when Wales played off against Hungary for a place in the last eight, Charles failed a fitness test shortly before the game. "With John out there we would have won," the late Jimmy Murphy, who managed Wales when Matt Busby's assistant at Manchester United, always maintained.

So does Cliff Jones: "They were all terrified of John," the former Tottenham Hotspur winger said, "Brazil included. A magnificent all-round footballer, tremendous in the air. We got in some pretty good centres that day, Terry Medwin from the right, me from the left, and with all respect for Colin Webster who was brought into the team, I still think about what John might have done with them."

Hard to believe, but Charles will be 65 on Friday [27 December]. A pensioner. "You're bloody right. It's frightening how quickly the years pass," he said when we spoke recently at his home in Birkenshaw, West Yorkshire. "Where did they go? It seems only like yesterday since..."

Only like yesterday since he was in the Leeds United first team at just 17, and capped by Wales before his 19th birthday; since a transfer to Juventus in 1957 led to him becoming a revered figure in Italian football.

We were sitting in the front room of a modest but comfortable semi-detached house where Charles lives with his second wife, Glenda, and it was about four o'clock in the afternoon. Charles was sitting in an easy chair, gazing at a coal fire. He had on dark slacks and a black sweater, and he was smoking a cigarette. He looked massive.

I was watching Charles. I was watching him sit there as though he could see something in the flames that I couldn't. This is a guy, I was thinking to myself, who is far away, a guy remembering how it used to be, the excitement of that first season at Juventus when his 28 League goals inspired them to the Italian championship.

My question broke the silence. "Do you ever regret coming back," I asked, "not making a life out there?"

Charles smiled. "Sometimes," he said.

He knew what I meant. Here the legend does not serve Charles well but even for the younger generation of Italian football supporters he is a heroic figure. "Gianni [Gianni Agnelli, the Fiat magnate and head of the family that owns Juventus] looked after many of the old players, set them up in business," he added, "and although we didn't part on the best of terms I knew I could have gone back. My big mistake was leaving Juventus in the first place, because once the link was broken things could never be the same."

In August 1962, his first marriage on the slide, and concerned for his children, Charles returned to play again for Leeds. A mistake. Three months later he was back in Italy turning out for Roma. Another mistake. At odds with Roma's coach, beset by injuries, he made only 10 appearances, lost his place in the Wales team and was sold to Cardiff City at the end of that season. There followed spells in non-League football as player-manager of Hereford and Merthyr Tydfil. Then it was over.

Imagine, though, a man standing 6ft 2in and weighing around 13st, with a huge torso rising from narrow hips to broad shoulders; with terrific balance, effortless touch and the spring of a high jumper. Brave too. No wonder that good judges put Charles among the 10 greatest players in history and alongside George Best in the annals of British football.

Maybe Charles is the best British player of all time. I don't know. There is no exact way of measuring such a thing but within a year of joining Juventus he was considered to be the leading player in Europe, ahead even of the Real Madrid maestro, Alfredo di Stefano, and valued at pounds 400,000, a staggering figure at that time.

Darkness was drawing in, the fire beginning to cast shadows. Charles' voice startled me: "You know something," he said. "I expected to sign for Lazio. Gigi [Gigi Perronace, who acted as an agent for Italian clubs] had the deal lined up but then, typically, he brought in Juventus. Gianni's younger brother Umberto - the club's president - came to watch me play for Wales against Northern Ireland in Belfast, and that was it."

Jack Charlton, who was then making his way at Leeds, had no doubts that Charles would be a success in Italy: "In those days I didn't know much about the game over there but John would have made it anywhere," he said. "Whenever I'm asked at dinners about the most effective British player of my time I'm sure people expect me to say Best or our kid [Bobby], but they forget about John. While everybody else just played the game he went out and won matches on his own."

A placid temperament thwarting all attempts at provocation - he was never sent off or cautioned and scorned petty fouling - Charles would become known as Il Buon Gigante - "The Gentle Giant".

I remembered the late Dave Bowen, who captained Arsenal and Wales, saying that it was frightening to think of the damage Charles could have done with his tremendous strength if he had been a bully.

Charles chortled: "Sometimes when I think about the people who gave me a bashing I regret not bashing them back. But it's nice to know that I went through my career without hurting anybody."

Never an easy touch though. "The big fella sells himself short," Charlton said one night. "Calm, yes, but nobody got the ball off him without a struggle. He was quick over the ground, exceptionally strong, and kept his elbows out so wide it was difficult to get in close. He had a powerful shot and, in the air, well, he was on his own, different class. There are some pretty useful performers in that department around today, and people have told me about Dixie Dean and Tommy Lawton, what great headers of the ball they were, scoring from as far out as the edge of the penalty area, but I can't imagine they were better than John. Going for crosses he would jump a second before you and thrust his chest into your shoulders. Most players close their eyes instinctively but I've seen pictures of John heading the ball with his eyes wide open."

We were reminiscing. A day or so after Charles arrived in Turin he bought a car. A Citroen. "I didn't think," he chuckled. "Right away Gianni was on the telephone asking what I was trying to do to him. All the players got Fiats anyway."

Some felt Charles had no peers at centre-half, the position he first filled at Leeds. Others that he was the complete centre-forward.

I had never heard him state a preference. "So which was it?" I asked.

"Centre-forward," he replied. "No question. A defender can kick five shots off the line but goalscorers get the glory."

There was plenty of that. Charles scored 97 League goals for Juventus in 165 matches. Striking up a devastating partnership with the fiery little Argentinian inside-forward Omar Sivori, who became his friend, Charles scored 23 times in the 1959-60 season when Juventus won another championship and the cup, winning it with a record of 55 points and 92 goals.

At the mention of Sivori's name, Charles chuckled: "Strange little bugger," he said. "We were pals from the start and Gianni loved him. He was always telling him that there was no better inside-forward in the world, so when Inter signed Luis Suarez from Barcelona, and his wages were printed in the newspapers, I knew there would be an explosion. Sivori was furious and he persuaded me to go with him to see Gianni. He asked for his contract and tore it up. Gianni just smiled at him. `Here's your new contract,' he said, handing it over."

"And you, John," I said, "something for you?"

"No," he replied. "It never came up, and you know me, I was never one for making trouble."

Would I believe a weekly wage of pounds 18, two pounds less than the maximum then permitted in English football?

"You're kidding," I said. "That's the truth," he replied. "Mind you, I got pounds 10,000 to sign and we got big bonuses. No tax either. Gianni handled that. I remember him coming into the dressing-room one day and drawing a line down through the map of Italy. `I pay the tax on this side,' he said. Amazing people the Agnellis, so rich, so powerful. One time, Umberto came on to the bus after we'd beaten AC Milan to say that he'd won a big bet with their president. Next thing he hands over a cheque to Boniperti. Came to about 800 quid each."

A villa on the Italian Riviera, part owner of a restaurant, making records and a film with Sivori, the big Welshman had it all including widespread admiration.

Making a rare appearance at centre-half in a win over Torino, he injured one of their players. "I'd won the ball and seeing the gap that opened up, our supporters were shouting for me to go through and score. But when I glanced behind me the player I'd tackled was lying on the floor. I stopped and kicked the ball out of play so that he could get some treatment."

"Can't imagine that went down very well," I said, not associating Corinthian attitudes with Italian football.

"Nobody mentioned it," Charles replied, "but late that night there was a din outside our villa. Horns going, people shouting. I looked out and saw this line of cars full of Torino supporters waving their red scarves. When I went and asked what it was all about one of them came forward and said that they wanted to thank me for what I'd done. I invited them in, about 20 all told, and by the time they left in the early hours of the morning they had drunk all my wine."

Through a family connection Charles almost began his career with Leyton Orient. Instead he went on to the ground staff at Swansea and was spirited away by a Leeds scout who lived around the corner from Vetch Field.

So long ago. So many memories. So many great moments. Maybe too much nostalgia. Charles spends much of his time in the company of old Leeds players Peter Lorimer, Billy Bremner and Bobby Collins. They raise money for charity and sometimes Charles is asked to speak at dinners.

Sadly there wasn't enough support for a function to celebrate his 65th birthday. Surely they haven't forgotten the man of whom Jimmy Murphy said: "Whenever I look at him it is as though the Messiah has returned."

A brief history of John Charles

Born: Swansea, 27 December 1931

1947: Joins Leeds United from Swansea City's ground staff

1949: Leeds United debut

1949-56: 297 League appearances for Leeds, 150 goals

1956: Transferred to Juventus for a British record pounds 65,000

1956-62: 155 League appearances for Juventus, 93 goals

1962: Briefly returns to Leeds; 11 appearances, three goals

1962-63: Joins Roma for pounds 70,000

1963-66: Finishes his career at Cardiff City, 66 League games, 19 goals

Honours

38 caps for Wales, 15 goals

1958, 1960, 1961 Italian League

Championship

1959 and 1960

Italian Cup