England vs South Africa: How it feels to captain your country in a Rugby World Cup final – win or lose

Phil Vickery, the last man to captain England to a World Cup final, speaks to The Independent about the emotions on the biggest day of his sporting career and why the sight of John Smit lifting the Webb Ellis Cup will stay with him forever

Phil Vickery is in an exclusive club of three: he knows the euphoria of winning a Rugby World Cup final, and has felt the scorching pain of captaining a losing side in one. Can you name the other two?

It is a tough ask to follow in the shoes of Martin Johnson, especially given the four years that preceded England’s historic 2003 triumph that saw coaches sacked, captains changed, key players retire and form desert the world champions. Those are the ingredients that potentially makes what Vickery’s side achieved at France 2007 even more impressive, if not as memorable.

Twelve years on from that night in Paris and more than nine years on since hanging up the boots, the fire within Vickery may have diminished when it comes to playing the game, but it burns brighter than ever before when it comes to his love of the sport.

“I just bloody wish I was there really!” says Vickery, speaking to The Independent ahead of England’s fourth men’s World Cup final appearance. Come this Saturday, England will finally have played as many World Cup finals without Vickery in the side than they have with him, which is testament not just to the great tighthead prop but to the generation he was surrounded by.

“That’s just the way it is. But on the flip side of that, I’ve played in two Rugby World Cup finals and been lucky enough to be on the winning team, and also be lucky enough to captain England to a World Cup final in 2007 and not win one.

“The reality is no one really gives a lot of thought to people who don’t win finals though.”

It is a sad truth that probably rings loudest in England, where most rugby fans can recite the famous starting XV from the 2003 final from memory, Vickery included. But try and name the 2007 final side, and the challenge becomes significantly harder. Not for the skipper though.

It is a coincidence that England will face South Africa this Saturday 12 years after they took on the same opposition in the same match. What made that journey so unbelievable though was that England had been humbled 36-0 by the Springboks in a humiliating defeat, one that appeared to confirm they had no chance of retaining their world championship crown.

So why was it special? For Vickery it was not the remarkable circumstances that led to England’s march through the knockout stages, or the way they came within a whisker of seizing control of the final had Mark Cueto’s try been awarded, but it came through the men who he shared the journey with.

“Looking around me I’ve got Lewis Moody, who’s a f****** hero,” Vickery says, his words growing more emotional by the name. “Martin Corry who’s just the most incredible human being I think. I could mention everybody but those guys particularly –guys like Nick Easter, Mark Regan, Andrew Sheridan, Benny Kay, Simon Shaw. Those blokes are proper blokes, they’re just guys.

“Were we the best international team in the world? No of course we weren’t but they were good human beings. I tell you what, Martin Corry and Lewis Moody would tear down trees for anybody and they were just guys that you were just so proud to have played with.

Vickery admits not many people remember the losers of a World Cup final (Getty)

“Martin Johnson would be the first person to tell you even in 2003 that yes he’s captain of the team – and what a captain and brilliant leader he was – but he’ll say ‘look around: Hill, Back, Dallaglio, Dawson, Bracken, Catt, Wilkinson, Greenwood, Tindall … then Vickery! Woodman, Thompson, Leonard’ ... Jesus Christ you had so many leaders in there and that for me ultimately is what leadership and captaincy is about, certainly in a successful team, but actually in any form of life.

“It’s about people going out and taking ownership, leading and being captain of their own bloody job. I think in any successful team you need that, and we had that in both – alright we had a tough time in 2007 but we had a tough time in 2003 too and then you need people to stand up. Those names that I’ve just mentioned and even the guys who don’t get mentioned, people like Jamie Noon and those boys, when you talk about Moody and Corry and Shaw, Regan, Sheridan, Kay, Steve Borthwick was around then, regardless of what you think about them as players and the challenges around should they or shouldn’t they play, they’re just incredibly proud, honest, human beings who will take ownership and take the bits that go with it. I know it sounds a bit naff but those are the things I remember.

“This weekend, you’ll need people who are going to stand up and be counted.”

Vickery remembers the moments he shared with his teammates more than anything that happened in the games (Getty)

There is one overriding memory that stands out for Vickery when he thinks back to the 2007 World Cup final. It is not leading out his team from the Stade de France tunnel, the national anthems of the try that never was as you might expect, but something very different and, in all honesty, rather surprising.

He recalls: “I remember most of the game, I remember hurting, I remember being proud of the players. I remember knowing we needed a good start. But I suppose the bit more about me as a person that I remember is being stood on the field at the end of the match with Paul Sackey and the boys doing our little lap when you’ve lost and all those emotions come out.

“I remember looking around and seeing John Smit doing that final part where they pick the trophy up and everyone starts going bonkers, and I remember two things: we decided to fight until the end when there was a chance where we could have not bothered, we fought to keep our trophy for that four-year period and we fought until the very end and we just weren’t good enough, so that made me proud. But the other thing was seeing John Smit lift the trophy.

“Of all the people – and not that I like losing or wanted to give it up – but of all the people I didn’t mind because I’d played a lot against him so many times and I felt like our careers crossed over for so long, I thought ‘what a frickin good human being to pass it on to’.

If there was one person Vickery was happy to see take the World Cup off England, it was John Smit (Getty)

“I thought of all the people … and actually when you think of South Africans as a whole and how proud a nation they are and all the challenges that have gone with it, if you’re going to give it up, they deserved to do it. Os du Randt is a hero of mine, and for Os to have come back and for me to have played against him, I played against him in 1999 and he was a hero of mine that I watched on TV and thought ‘what an amazing rugby player’ and was genuinely scared of the bloke because he’s such a monster. So to see it for Os and John, it’s a weird mixed emotion, the game is almost a blur because there’s so many little moments and it’s kind of surreal and crazy.”

Vickery was the last captain to lead England to a World Cup final until Owen Farrell’s side beat the All Blacks last Saturday, securing their place in what could be their legacy-defining match. If the former Gloucester and Wasps prop found himself in the changing room on Saturday deep inside the International Stadium Yokohama, what would he find himself saying?

“It’s a difficult one because it is such a big occasion and you do want to try enjoy it,” he says. “The easy thing to say would be ‘oh you must make sure you enjoy it’, well there’s nothing to enjoy because there’s so much pressure on you and the occasion, and ultimately it’s going to be one of the biggest days of your life – it certainly was for me in the sense of my sporting career.

“But I would say now please go out and enjoy it because it doesn’t last very long. It’s just gone so soon that I sincerely hope the lads at the weekend enjoy it. Something that’s not talked about so much is when you do go out and enjoy it you often actually play better, and I think for this England team looking at the talent they’ve got, if they can go out with a smile on their face and that fire and determination, all underpinned with the detail and skill-sets that you need they’ll play a lot better for it as well.”

Upon full reflection, Vickery can say honestly that he did enjoy his two World Cup finals, win or lose. The same probably doesn’t go for the other captainss in that exclusive club, given the way the 1995 and 2003 finals were lost, but then you’d have to ask Sean Fitzpatrick and George Gregan for the definitive answer to that one.